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Final drive oil leak D'oh

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TooJuicy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooJuicy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2020 at 16:44
Originally posted by Roylomm Roylomm wrote:

According to the service schedule the F/D oil is changed at 12,000 miles and this V7 III has only done 7600 miles.

I have always treated the service schedule intervals as 10k km (6k miles) or annually whichever comes first. So every 2 years in this case. 

The FD on my CARC Big Block has 10k/annual scheduled oil replacement intervals but notwithstanding that I recall Corsa Italiana saying they always changed the FD oil annually regardless since the cost was negligible - well, £8.30 incl. VAT.

TONY


Edited by TooJuicy - 27 Sep 2020 at 16:47
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Roylomm View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roylomm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2020 at 15:31
I've flushed through oil in the F/D 3 times.
But....
Shock horror...



Last flush through and there's black swarf and a little nugget of metal found on the drain plug magnet.
Well this is a warranty issue now.

I will keep you posted
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Tony G View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony G Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2020 at 19:13
Not meaning to be doom and gloom. but will warenty be valid as you've touched it.
I'll get their soon
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Mike H View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2020 at 20:27
Originally posted by Roylomm Roylomm wrote:

Meant to say teaspoons.
No idea what oil is in there as it has been serviced by a dealership.
So emulsified oil means water has got in.
Planning on changing oil.
Does this mean that the seal is knackered?


Air, with moisture in it, is getting in via the breather cap (thanks Brian).

My Ural has exactly the same issue, FD has a breather and I have just changed the oil (actually about 300 miles ago) because it was like dirty cream. To be fair the last time it been changed was 10 months ago, and then we had all that rain last Autumn. I only noticed it now because after checking the level with the dipstick (yes Ural has a dipstick / filler for the FD and damn handy it is too), as I do frequently, I usually put a drop on paper for colour, test it for how it feels (between finger and thumb), only then noticed, against a non-white background (i.e., me) it's looking a little opaque.



And this is what drained out:



NB the geabox has the same type breather "valve" too so I suspect that has water in it too, however it is 10 times the capacity so should be less affected.

I think this is the crux if it's a small quantity (Ural's FD is 90cc) it's flogging a dead horse IMHO trying to keep the water out totally, and it's no point getting all upset about it and blaming something or somebody, all it means is, check and change it more often if required. Which I'm going to do from now on, if it's starting to look like mayo then it'll get changed. Also I don't think adding extra tubes and wotnot is going to help, if it's got access to the atmosphere then it all depends on the prevailing humidity in the air, temperature and so on.


I well remember my Meriden Triumph T140V, that also had a stupidly small oil "content" for the primary drive (which of course includes the wet clutch), I commuted to work on it every day, and during the winter, EVERY Saturday morning I'd have to change it because it had all gone dirty white. Blocking up the vent hole (as a possible 'cure') was not an option as it was also the crankcase breather.












"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roylomm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2020 at 15:28
Originally posted by Tony G Tony G wrote:

Not meaning to be doom and gloom. but will warenty be valid as you've touched it.
Well here in lies a debate/flame war (delete as applicable).
My understanding is that if you use manufacturers recommend oils for basic maintenance then no. The warranty is for Q/C issues. The Guzz V7 engine was engineered to be easy to maintain. The only changes that's been forced on these bikes are emissions restrictions. Looking at the F/D oil problem the flush through was working, it's just that little chunk of metal and black swarf that needs to be investigated and addressed
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Brian UK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2020 at 22:07
If all you have done is drain and replace the oil with the correct grade I don't see how it could affect the warranty.
The presence of metal particles should certainly be investigated.
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roylomm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2020 at 20:44
Well....
The Milano V7III was bought by me new 18 months ago and is still under MG's warranty. It's just under 8000 miles on the clock.

Regarding the on-going F/D oil issue I called the MG customer service number and spoke with a very nice Italian lady in Italy with a perfect command of the English language.

I explained the predicament of 3 oil flushings and the powdered swarf and pinhead sized bit of metal on the oil drain bolt magnet.
A quick look on her computer and the nearest MG dealer (the one I use frequently) was selected.
Due to possible further damage to the F/D I am to use the MG 24/7 road side assist to deliver the poorly sick bike.

A quick phone call to the dealer and some insight to this problem was discussed.
From the factory MG squirts some grease into the breather bolt to assist the little ball bearing in the top hat section. Invariably this can clog up with any water coming in and therefore oil eventually gets past the seal.
Also the grease can increase the 170cc's of F/D oil which gets past the seal.
Ambient temperature and friction from moving parts increases the volume of emulsified oil and then that's how I've been experiencing oil splatter on the rear wheel rim and tyre during hot summer days!

So the warranty works like this;
Appointed dealer checks problem, if no mechanical failure customer foots bill. If there is a problem MG covers the cost.
The fact that there's metal deposits there could be a problem.
My changing of F/D oil does not impact on the warranty and if the emulsified oil persists then that's what happens, take it on the chin (as I mentioned I would do anyway).
Further to the discussion the workshop manager said that they sell loads of V7's and the oil spatter does not happen but they do change the F/D oil at the 6000 mile service as they think the 12,400 mile recommended interval is a bit fanciful. Also in the last 3 years they have only replaced one cush drive under warranty.

On the subject of warranty when I bought The Milano MG offered a 2 year cover. Then wham! Royal Enfield bring out The 650 twin with a 4 year cover!
Now all MG's come with a 4 year warranty, I was 6 months out on that.
However the charming Italian customer service lady said that I can get another 2 year extended cover for a small fee (which is probably part of the purchase price nowadays).
The earliest time I can get the bike seen is November so I will let you all know what's what then.

To all those whom have found this post through an internet search looking for an answer to the rear wheel oil spatter and F/D oil leak I trust the info here helps.
Cheers
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Brian UK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2020 at 09:48
Well that's the best outcome you could hope for, just a shame you had so many hoops to jump through.
Also good that the warranty is extended.
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooJuicy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2020 at 11:20
Originally posted by Roylomm Roylomm wrote:

However the charming Italian customer service lady said that I can get another 2 year extended cover for a small fee (which is probably part of the purchase price nowadays).

Roylomm - if you are considering the extended warranty I suggest you speak to your dealer before the factory warranty expires.

I tried to extend mine when the factory warranty had expired and was informed I was too late, and that extension had to be in place before the original warranty expires.

Tony
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken-Guzzibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2020 at 12:26
To be fair Guzzi can be slow BUT when I found my pristine Cali EV 5 yrs ago now it had 12k miles and a massive service History from main dealers but it was 12 yrs old. However there were 2 outstanding recalls, The first was a fork yoke the other the Hydraulic Tappet recall and replace. 

Twiggers reported these along with the copy of the service book with over 12 entries. along with pictures of the bike. Guzzi came back within 6 weeks honouring the recall/warranty issues, both were done reasonably quickly. It did help that Mark did not have to wait for the tappet kit as he had one, he also checked everything internally had not been damaged. 

It is such a shame that Twiggers has now closed, largely down to ill health of the partners who ran it. 

Have to say if you have a full service history Guzzi are not as difficult as often reported
The Older i Get, The Better I Was
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roylomm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2020 at 18:21
Originally posted by TooJuicy TooJuicy wrote:

Roylomm - if you are considering the extended warranty I suggest you speak to your dealer before the factory warranty expires.

I tried to extend mine when the factory warranty had expired and was informed I was too late, and that extension had to be in place before the original warranty expires.

Tony
Yes mate, it was mentioned during our delightful conversation and thanks for the heads up 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andyb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2020 at 09:55
I did not know that Twiggers had closed but I moved away from the Midlands last year.  A few years back they stopped selling MG which was a bit ironic as Mark and Co knew the bikes very well and did a good job.  For anyone who did not know them, they were a more ‘traditional’ shop.  They did the first service on my V7 and replaced a faulty TB under warranty.  It is is shame if they have shut down.
AndyB
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote motopete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2020 at 16:11
Originally posted by Roylomm Roylomm wrote:

So I've taken down the oil level bolt and about 2 tablespoons of oil came out immediately. So must be overfilled. That adds up as the oil leak spatter on  the rear wheel has been getting less as measured from the start of the problem.

So, does this look emulsified?
Water in the oil?

YES! That oil needs changing immediately. Have you ridden through lots of rain or water? The only way water can get in is via the top hat breather, maybe it's being blasted by spray when you're riding?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roylomm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2020 at 22:02
Originally posted by motopete motopete wrote:


YES! That oil needs changing immediately. Have you ridden through lots of rain or water? The only way water can get in is via the top hat breather, maybe it's being blasted by spray when you're riding?

Yes mate, read through the rest of the thread.
Waiting to get inspected by guzzi dealer as 3rd flush through presented me with a piece of metal on the drain plug magnet. Lots of pictures, check it out fella. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote motopete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2020 at 19:08
Embarrassed My bad, somehow I skipped from the first page straight to the end... Too much homebrew I think!

It's always bothered me that the breather is blasted by spray, but since I don't often ride in heavy rain or use a jet wash my oil's stayed clean.
FWIW I've never had a scrap of debris on the magnet so I tend to agree there's something amiss in your F/D. I hope MG look after you, they have a pretty good reputation in that regard.
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