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Clutch problem

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Dave P. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Clutch problem
    Posted: 15 Jan 2021 at 16:50
TO LIVE OUTSIDE THE LAW YOU MUST BE HONEST.

1971 V7 Special. 1972 850GT.
1970 T120 Bonnie. 2009 500 Bullet.
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Dave P. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2021 at 16:45
Chilton's Moto Guzzi Repair & Tune-up Guide: All V7, V750 Ambassador, and V850 Eldorado Models from 1966-1972
You can download this manual from Greg Benders site if you don't have it already




Edited by Dave P. - 15 Jan 2021 at 16:48
TO LIVE OUTSIDE THE LAW YOU MUST BE HONEST.

1971 V7 Special. 1972 850GT.
1970 T120 Bonnie. 2009 500 Bullet.
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Dave P. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2021 at 16:29
It sounds as if the L/H enrichment/choke piston isn't seating properly or that the rubber in the piston is damaged. Have you got the recommended (4mm) slack in the cable which operates the L/H choke. Sometimes the piston sticks if there is any corrosion in the bore that the piston operates in. Any water getting down there can cause the problem, hence the rubber boot on the cable. I always put a drop of engine oil on the choke piston.
It's worth checking that the pilot jet is the correct size which is 45.

Edited by Dave P. - 15 Jan 2021 at 16:38
TO LIVE OUTSIDE THE LAW YOU MUST BE HONEST.

1971 V7 Special. 1972 850GT.
1970 T120 Bonnie. 2009 500 Bullet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Modorado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2021 at 15:43
Hey Dave, I can't remember if it was 1 1/2 turns out or 1 3/4 but I followed what Greg Bender recommended. Had a look at the plugs yesterday and the left one is black and sooty, dry. Too rich? 
I've ordered carb rebuild kits and fuel filters, plan is to rebuild both of them but the bike is running better the more I ride it. I was missing a bolt from the left intake manifold (one snapped while removing it, had great fun repairing that) since replacing that and tightening down the manifold it improved too. 
Doing valve clearances tonight, I'll report back with findings.
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Dave P. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2021 at 22:19
How many turns out is the mixture screw on the L/H carb?
Are the choke pistons lifting as they should?
Check valve clearances.
TO LIVE OUTSIDE THE LAW YOU MUST BE HONEST.

1971 V7 Special. 1972 850GT.
1970 T120 Bonnie. 2009 500 Bullet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Modorado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2021 at 21:52
Just wanted to give you guys an update, the bike is all back together with new clutch kit and gearbox oil seals installed. No nasty surprises along the way. Also installed the sachse electronic ignition kit. The bike runs well now but the left head is pretty noisy, valve adjustment coming this weekend.
I am having a bit of trouble with it when it’s cold though, it starts quickly and easily but pops a bit and has very little power for the first minute or two but then comes to life and is fine. Any ideas what it could be? I’ve got new coils, leads, caps and plugs. New air filter and rubber boot too. Have cleaned the fuel tank out and the left carb when trying to find out why it wouldn’t run on the left cylinder. Tonight I noticed that the rubber boots on the choke and throttle cables were split and possibly letting water in(it’s been raining a lot this week). I’ve taped them up for now but it’s kept indoors at night and I’ve had the problem in the morning so I’m not convinced that’s a problem. 
Maybe it just needs a good spin, it hadn’t been used much before I got it and I’ve just been going a few Km to work and back the last 2 days. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Modorado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2020 at 16:47
Thumbs Up Thanks Charlie, I've ordered all my parts. Decided to replace the springs, they measured anywhere from 23.28mm to 25.78mm and look to be heat damaged. Went with original spec springs. 
Hopefully my parcel will arrive before Christmas, give me something to do in the garage after I install my electronic ignition kit and sort the front brake.
Can't wait to get out on the bike and see what it's actually like.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Amboman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2020 at 14:36
Originally posted by Modorado Modorado wrote:

If I get the kit https://www.stein-dinse.biz/product_info.php?products_id=790 I’ll get a new hub which I can use to centre the new clutch but I’ll have to buy the tool for the nut. Otherwise I’ll have to buy the cantering tool for the new plates if I get the original rough toothed plates. 
What do you guys reckon my best move is here?


The clutch hub is knackered too, best to buy the whole kit. The new clutch hub can be used as a centering tool/spring compressor with the addition of a suitable spacer and bolt. There are some examples here: http://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_clutch_plate_spline_alignment-_centering-_and_pressure_plate_compression_tool_-_using_a_clutch_hub-_spacer-_and_an_engine_mounting_bolt_-30906500-.html

and here: http://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_clutch_plate_spline_alignment-_centering-_and_pressure_plate_compression_tool_-_using_a_clutch_hub_and_a_bolt_-30906500-.html

If your original springs measure within spec., then they can be reused. Many of the replacement springs have "issues": too long and coil bind, higher spring rate so clutch is super hard.
Charlie
'69 Ambassador,'71 Ambassador,'73 Eldorado,'75 Eldorado police,'76 Convert,'77 Morini 3 1/2 Strada,'81 Ducati 500SL Pantah

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Modorado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2020 at 09:19
Thanks Ian, I wasn't aware of that. I'll check it tonight if I get time. 
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Dave P. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2020 at 23:31
Hmm, a bit beyond a white spirit wash methinks. And the previous owner had no trouble with it?
I would guess your best move would be to wait for comment from Amboman.
He does this stuff for a living.

Edited by Dave P. - 14 Dec 2020 at 23:42
TO LIVE OUTSIDE THE LAW YOU MUST BE HONEST.

1971 V7 Special. 1972 850GT.
1970 T120 Bonnie. 2009 500 Bullet.
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Mike H View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2020 at 22:23
Originally posted by Modorado Modorado wrote:

So, there’s the problem.


That explains a lot! Big smile


"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ranton_rambler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2020 at 21:44
Have you taken the bevel box off the swinging arm? It would be worth checking that the oil drain slot is lined up correctly. There is no seal at the front of the bevel box and the pinion bearing is lubricated by oil thrown forward by the crownwheel, which then drains back into the bevel box. I can't remember the exact detail but on loop-frame bikes it's possible to assemble it wrong if you don't know. I think Tonti bikes are different.
Anyway, if the oil can't get back it gradually fills up the swinging arm and even gets into the gearbox and raises the level, especially on long trips. Mine did it, but is fixed now.
Also, if you have the later style bevel box with the "sump", a lot of these have the level plug in the wrong place. Always fill with the correct volume and ignore the level plug. 360cc I think, but can check tomorrow (if I remember).
Ian
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2020 at 20:40
I think we can definitely say that clutch is nearing the end of its days.
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Modorado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2020 at 20:40
So, there’s the problem. Looks like one of the friction discs bonded to the steel plate, probably left standing for a long time. 
No nasty surprises along the way, uj is in good order but I think the gearbox output seal is gone, plenty of oil in with the uj and all over the back of the gearbox. 
I’m slightly confused about what parts to order. Can I just buy 2 of the original type clutch plates https://www.stein-dinse.biz/product_info.php?products_id=207794
And 8 springs? How can I tell if my clutch hub is the original rough toothed type or the newer fine toothed? The hub nut has been off at some stage judging by the nut, whoever removed and replaced it didn’t have the right tool. 
If I get the kit https://www.stein-dinse.biz/product_info.php?products_id=790 I’ll get a new hub which I can use to centre the new clutch but I’ll have to buy the tool for the nut. Otherwise I’ll have to buy the cantering tool for the new plates if I get the original rough toothed plates. 
What do you guys reckon my best move is here?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Modorado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2020 at 19:16
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