guzziriders.org - moto guzzi forum Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Technical > Small Blocks
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - V7 850 my first impressions
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

V7 850 my first impressions

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 7>
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
Andy M View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2015
Location: Leeds
Status: Offline
Points: 1129
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andy M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: V7 850 my first impressions
    Posted: 19 Nov 2022 at 16:17
Just over 8000 miles and it doesn't go away. 

However:

It only happens below about 8 degrees air temp until the fast idle function ends.
The correct gearbox oil is critical. Use the 750 spec stuff and it's ten times worse.
Clutch adjustment while important seems to stay put.

I've stopped worry about it. The "computer-sez-no" on the first couple of pushes of the starter button are more annoying.

Andy 
Back to Top
Bobcat471 View Drop Down
Guzzino
Guzzino
Avatar

Joined: 18 Nov 2022
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 8
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bobcat471 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2022 at 05:32
Ditto: mine goes into first quietly and when it’s cold occasionally it won’t shift up at first. Mine has just less than 200 miles and I can get it into 2nd and 3rd without the clunk occasionally. It’s finding the best rpm /mph to shift without over reving the motor I am not sure on as it has great torque though out the range
Back to Top
Mike H View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 May 2014
Location: East Anglia
Status: Offline
Points: 8733
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2022 at 16:41
Originally posted by Speciality Speciality wrote:

then it felt like the gear lever was stuck.

Yes that was it exactly.

"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."
Back to Top
Speciality View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 31 Aug 2022
Location: Bucks
Status: Offline
Points: 229
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speciality Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2022 at 16:28
Yes, mine would always go silently into first at the beginning of a ride and then it felt like the gear lever was stuck. I did wonder whether it was my inadvertently not allowing the lever to centralise after selecting first but it only ever happened from cold. It occurs to me that maybe the selectors need a bit of oil fling to get going. Mine improved by the simple expedient of raising the gear lever a little, allowing me to finesse my gear-changing a little, both up and down the box. It would be nice if I could do the same to the rear brake lever. The change has got better as mileage has increased. Mileage is a bit under 3000 miles, partly because I have another bike and partly because personal circumstances have prevented my riding as much as I’d have liked this year, which for a number of reasons I’ll be glad to see the back of.
Back to Top
Mike H View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 May 2014
Location: East Anglia
Status: Offline
Points: 8733
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2022 at 16:05
So there ya go. Gear change does get less crunchy with miles and after warming up. How many miles on yours? When mine was still brand new, sometimes it would point-blank refuse to change up until it had had a couple more minutes to warm up ... Confused


"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."
Back to Top
Speciality View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 31 Aug 2022
Location: Bucks
Status: Offline
Points: 229
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speciality Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2022 at 17:12
A minor update: I went for a decent ride today and called in at the supplying dealer, mainly to have a nosey at the clutch adjustment on their demonstrator, a Stone. Lo and behold, the amount of thread showing on both the operating lever at the gearbox end and at the cable adjuster on the gearbox is the same as mine. The clutch operation also feels the same. So essentially mine was delivered with a too slack clutch adjustment, which probably explains the crunchy gearbox, relative to the smooth ones I keep reading about and seeing on videos. I do wonder if the dealers PDI them….Silly me for thinking it was just a bit of extra slack in the cable (better than too tight), rather than a fundamental failure to set it properly in the first place. It certainly feels more like it should now.
Back to Top
Speciality View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 31 Aug 2022
Location: Bucks
Status: Offline
Points: 229
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speciality Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2022 at 22:15
Thanks for that; I must be going senile because I thought the headlight came on with the ignition - must be my Honda then (ahem). Good to know about the clutch adjustment too. I believe mine had too much slack when I got it. They didn’t do anything to it at the first service. I have a feeling (hope) that the clunkiness in the first three gears will be gone. We’ll see.
Anyway, thanks again. Really these are pretty straightforward to service.
Back to Top
Mike H View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 May 2014
Location: East Anglia
Status: Offline
Points: 8733
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2022 at 19:22
I adjusted my clutch lever free play only once for 'the best feel', and never had to again since. As far as I can tell the amount of slack hasn't changed. Never had to look at the gearbox end adjuster. V7 850 Special, 2021 (bought October). Coming up to 5,000 miles.

I will be doing the next full service myself and I want to video it, but I don't think it will happen before springtime next year tho.

EDIT: appendix -
Quote
BTW Am I going barmy or should the headlight ie dip or main beam come on as soon as the ignition key is set to run?

No, when engine starts.

Quote
perhaps the LED headlight in the Stone is wired differently from the H4 bulb in the Special

No, the behaviour is exactly the same.

Just as a point of interest, this behaviour is identical to the two Piaggio X10 maxi-scooters I had – no headlight until engine starts. Personally I prefer it TBH, but makes testing your headlight bulb a bit of a pain.





Edited by Mike H - 11 Nov 2022 at 19:37
"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."
Back to Top
Speciality View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 31 Aug 2022
Location: Bucks
Status: Offline
Points: 229
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speciality Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2022 at 16:51
I finished doing the service today, or rather carrying out preventative additional checks to avoid potential issues further down the line, largely in response to the issues that AndyM had found when servicing his Stone. I had already removed and greased the brake pad retaining pins, with no difficulty. Today I did the same with the swing arm pivots, rear caliper to swinging arm bolt and the rear shocks mounting bolts. Using a hot air gun on the first two turned out to be a waste of time - there was zero loctite or equivalent Italian cement on any of them and all had some grease. No need for the rattle gun I bought specially, though no doubt it'll come in handy. No threads were remotely close to being b*ggered in the removal or replacement of these fixings. 
What conclusions are to be drawn from this I don't know. Bearing in mind that I bought it with 500 miles on the clock as I see it the possibilities are:
 - The first owner did the work. There is evidence of coppaslip on a number of fasteners I had previously removed to do the job myself. If (s)he did do this to the ones I did today, then either there were no issues removing the bolts or no damage was caused doing the work.
- The supplying dealer did a thorough job of PDI, doing over and above what is specified. A possibility. Probably the best bike mechanic I know used to work there but was made redundant and now works for a local independent repair shop. I don't know when this happened, only discovering this recently. He would probably have done this work if he did the PDI. I wouldn't trust any of the rest to to the work, the dealer being one of those that would be just as happy selling white goods.
 - It was done at the factory. I doubt that the coppaslip would have been done there but it is possible that they didn't slather the bolts with thread - knackering loctite/cement either.
So, until such time as a few more brave souls take on the maintenance of their V7 850, we'll not know whether there is/was a problem at the factory or the supplying dealer of AndyM's Stone has a fetish for making certain that nothing comes loose.......
Could it in fact be that the factory takes more care in building SpecialsWink?

Back to Top
Speciality View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 31 Aug 2022
Location: Bucks
Status: Offline
Points: 229
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speciality Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2022 at 08:20
Cheers for that; tbh I’d prefer it if that is how the V7 850 is supposed to be (and currently is), no pun intended… As long as the headlight lights up with the engine running I feel disinclined to fiddle with it anyway.
Back to Top
Brian UK View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2014
Location: Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 17641
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2022 at 21:16
Can't give a specific answer, but the Norge only turns the headlight on when the engine is running, so maybe they now do the same on the V7 850.
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
Back to Top
Speciality View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 31 Aug 2022
Location: Bucks
Status: Offline
Points: 229
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speciality Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2022 at 17:13
Thanks for the helpful reply. I’m pretty sure the dealer did b*gger all to the clutch at the 900 miles service. He didn’t do either the gearbox or final drive oil and the clutch play, which was too large, at least relative to spec, was no different to when I got the bike back. I’ll have another look tomorrow to see the angle at which the operating arm now sits. I agree totally with the point that the clutch should be hydraulically operated, especially given the lousy access to the operating arm adjuster.
BTW Am I going barmy or should the headlight ie dip or main beam come on as soon as the ignition key is set to run? I spent a happy hour or so trying to locate a “fault” ie only the pilot bulb and tail bulb came on, only to find later that once the engine started dip or main beam lit up. I could have sworn that one or other should light up when the ignition is switched on (because I hate it doing so when installing a new map, when battery voltage is critical). It occurs to me that perhaps the LED headlight in the Stone is wired differently from the H4 bulb in the Special, though I doubt it. Anyway, left hand cluster cleaned and protected and knowledge gained that headlight is like our front room - there’s nowt much in it…. I was expecting it to be crammed full of connectors and wires, but there’s just the two wires for main/dip/ flash and one for the pilot bulb. Good. Getting to know the bike better now, including which fuse does the lights and what else it does - an advantage of working on it yourself.🙂
Back to Top
Andy M View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2015
Location: Leeds
Status: Offline
Points: 1129
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andy M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2022 at 16:10
I used this YouTube as a guide 


Got the cable at 90 degrees to the arm, then set the slack. 

It needed doing at 900 miles, but remember mine had the wrong oil in the gearbox from 600 to 900 miles. I might have been putting it back into adjustment after the dealer monkey took it out. You would really notice slip or bad gear selection when cold if it was that far out, that's what set me looking. I doubt you have a big problem.

The geometry of these clutches is a bit of a mess. They should have gone hydraulic by now, but that's Moto Guzzi for you.

Andy 




Edited by Andy M - 09 Nov 2022 at 16:13
Back to Top
Speciality View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 31 Aug 2022
Location: Bucks
Status: Offline
Points: 229
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speciality Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2022 at 14:13
OK, one for the spanner twirlers: I have just completed an annual service on my V7 850 Special. The dealer did the 900 miles first service getting on for a year ago but I prefer to do it myself, despite losing the balance of warranty. (Also I remapped it to suit the Mistral exhausts). Given the low annual mileage I do (I have another bike), I prefer to service them on a time basis when the weather turns nippy, rather than do it in the riding season.
Right, the valve clearance, all oils/filters were done with no difficulty, apart from learning the best way which follows from actually doing it on a bike new to me. I also intend to remove and grease some of the bolts that I gather Guzzi slather in concrete (swinging arm pivots and rear brake caliper retaining bolt to name two). But the question I have relates to clutch adjustment. I should perhaps add that I have good knowledge of adjusting clutches with a similar general driveline layout on BMW oilheads and I had a Cali III years ago but don’t remember having to adjust the clutch on that.
Deciphering the gibberish in the handbook, the basic adjustment is to set the free play at the clutch lever to 2mm and then to check that there is play forward and aft (not sideways as the handbook appears to suggest). If it is not possible to achieve this by using the adjuster at the hand lever, then take it to your dealer…
What is needed is an adjustment at the clutch operating lever end, a bit of a PITA owing to access issues and holding the adjuster still whilst tightening the locknut.
I have watched a couple of videos on doing this adjustment on a V7 III. However, on that model there is no cable adjuster on the  side of the gearbox - hence the need to use the one on the operating lever. The 850 has provision to adjust free play on the gearbox-mounted cable adjuster, rather like n bikes with cable clutches. I decided to screw in the hand lever to allow future minor adjustments there by adjusting the gearbox-mounted adjuster so that there is the specified 2mm clearance at the hand lever.
My concern is this: having done this there is not a lot of adjustment left at the gearbox-mounted adjuster, but there isn’t much at the operating lever pivot adjuster either. Should I be concerned?
I ask because there’s a huge thread on GuzziTech about incorrectly machined crankshafts on V7 II Stones of circa 2014 vintage. Apparently Moto Guzzi fitted exchange new motors under warranty. A symptom of a problem here was that the free-play used to disappear rapidly until none was left as the crankshaft wore against the crankcase. What just Stone models I can’t say (probably a function of batch production).
I am a considerate user of dry clutches in the Moto Guzzi car-type drivetrain as, having done the job on my R1100RS of yore, I know what a PITA clutch replacement is - not hard, but long-winded. That said, it was bought used from an official dealer with 500 miles on it. Unless deliberately abused or maladjusted from new I can’t see how the clutch would wear so much, if indeed it has. It has done less than 3,000 in total. So, what opinion do to have as to what, if anything, I should do. I should add that the clutch action is light and neither slips nor drags but there has always been more slack than specified (and I prefer it this way than too tight). Over to you. Thanks in anticipation. BTW I’m pretty sure the dealer would not fit a new clutch under warranty anyway.
Oh, and the other thing that has been bugging me since I bought the bike is an annoying and quite loud creaking when the handlebars are turned. I checked steering head free play as part of the service - no play and no notchiness. I had tried to locate the source of the creaking for some time without success. Today the mystery was solved, as I had begun to suspect it is the mass of cables rubbing against each other and against cable guides - a relief to me having read of a 2022 Stone owner whose under-greased steering head bearings failed at low mileage (Piaggio of course refused a warranty repair on the dubious (dishonest) basis that they are a consumable item despite the time share arrangement that many manufacturers seem to have on the use of the grease gun….
Back to Top
Mike H View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 May 2014
Location: East Anglia
Status: Offline
Points: 8733
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2022 at 19:58
-
Thumbs Up
"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 7>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.