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Roller cam dates.

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Brian UK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Roller cam dates.
    Posted: 06 Nov 2016 at 11:26
Not a definitive list I'm sure, so use with caution.
 
Stelvio- Motor AC...12596 Build Date 12 March 2012
Griso - Motor A8...13524 Build Date 12 April 2012
Norge - Motor AA...12214 Build Date 18 April 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Emmell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 16:18
I'm looking to buy a Norge, either the 2v or 4v model but am put off the latter by the roller cam issue. However, looking at various 'GT 8V's for sale, I've noticed the more later ones have a black CARC arm and some coloured trim on the fuel tank knee grips. 
Would it be safe to assume these later ones fall into the engine number/build dates above and therefore have the roller cams already built in? Or is that just wishful thinking and it's not as simple as that!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 17:46
I don't think you should assume anything. Even those build dates have proved to be unreliable.
 
There is no problem with the Norge 2 valve engine, I have one.
 
On the later 4 valve the only certain way to know is to lift the rocker cover and look.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Emmell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 22:09
Thanks Brian. I'm not sure a dealer will be happy to whip rocker covers off, though with the known history about this issue I would expect them to be able to prove a bike has either had the mods done, or that it has factory fitted roller cams.
However, having looked at lots of chat about this I'm now gravitating more to the 2v Norge.
Cheers
Mark 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 22:18
If it's a Guzzi dealer they should be able to tell you definitely by checking the service record if the mod has been done. A non Guzzi dealer probably won't.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2019 at 17:51
Basically looking at a Sport 1200 and wanted to know about the tappet history. Found some decent reading surrounding the VIN#.

Getting the easy bits out the way first, the VIN# format using my 2006 Breva (not a Roller issue):

ZGULPA0016M111752 which is my bike and first registered back in January 2006. Now I didn't get that info directly from the VIN# but what the number does provide is this:

ZGU - Moto Guzzi Italy. All BNS and other Guzzi's will start with these letters, but possibly not all.

LP A00 1 - Model and variant. Breva 1100 ABS.

6 - 2006, year of manufacture.

This would imply, it was built at the beginning of the new year or the build spanned 2005/06.

M -  for Mandello. I thought it might have been the Roman numerical. But we all know what thought did!

111752 - is the build number, 641st off the production line.

It seems that the serial starts at 111111. However, there's a but!

The Breva/Sport 8V 1200 should have ended production in 2010 and never had Mandello factory production build Rollers fitted. But there are DM year Sports and interestingly there are serials 20000x. Possibly the 2xxxxx indicates Rollers. I don't know.

REF:
archive.guzzitech.com/MGGriso/Registry.html

and some others.
Breva 1100 ABS 2006
E-Plus 20 Inch Folding Electric Bike 2018 :p
Royal Enfield Himalayan ABS 2019
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooJuicy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2019 at 18:17
Originally posted by stu stu wrote:


The Breva/Sport 8V 1200 should have ended production in 2010 and never had Mandello factory production build Rollers fitted. But there are DM year Sports and interestingly there are serials 20000x. Possibly the 2xxxxx indicates Rollers. I don't know.

Not sure what you mean here by production ended 2010. My 1200 Sport 8v has a 2012 build date.  Several parts (such as the fairing) even have a makers' date stamp on them of 2012.

Tony
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2019 at 21:24
Hi Tony.

On my readings regarding the tappets, I read a post that stated "No 1200 Sport had Rollers from factory at production". Can't find that post now, typical. Also, references to the Sport production seemed to end in 2010, such as ZGULPJ20,ZGULPR00,ZGULPR01 1200 SPORT 8V 1200, 2008-2010, mgcn.nl. Which again would imply no Rollers on factory 1200 Sports.

Having said that, like your bike with a 2012 build date and possibly a serial beginning 20xxxx instead of 11xxxx, I was kinda hoping that some later 1200 Sports may have had Rollers fitted at factory. Possibly the one I was looking at. The later 1200S models with 20xxxx serials, such as the Stelvio and Norge. This is why I was thinking Rollers on later 1200S. 1200S have production dates of 2013 too, DM. 2013 is after the change from Flats to Rollers. Again implying 1200S with Rollers fitted at factory production and the post I can't find being incorrect.

All this research started because of a post having a 1200S VIN# ZGULPRO12M200024 and a claim build of 2013. Well that ain't right I thought. Turned out to be a typo, a missing character and a new to me serial format.

I tell you, being OCD doesn't help in making friends, which also reminds me of a funny post I read earlier, again on the Tappet subject and referring to OCD but as CDO with the letters in the correct alphabetical order as they should be. Which made me laugh.

Anyhoo Tony. Hopefully, I've made things  clearer. It's not easy being me Embarrassed
Breva 1100 ABS 2006
E-Plus 20 Inch Folding Electric Bike 2018 :p
Royal Enfield Himalayan ABS 2019
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooJuicy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2019 at 18:08
Stu, I heard a story that the 1200S continued in production with flat tappet heads after the other 1200 models were using roller tappets.  The story suggests that final 1200S production "used up" Guzzi's stocks of flat tappet engines.  I doubt there's any official line from Guzzi but it is believable.

I don't have my 1200S to hand (I'm temporarily living in Italy) so I cannot comment on its chassis numbers but I recollect my Corsa has a 2012 chassis code and several of its uniquely "S" parts (screen & black/red Corsa saddle) have 2012 build dates on them.

Tony
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2019 at 19:03
Thanks for the info Tony. I'm actually of the unproven opinion that the change to Roller was possibly marketing damage control attempt. But there's far too much engineering that I don't understand to say much more than that.

molly over at https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=64754.0 has an interesting post:

Originally posted by molly Sept 2013 molly Sept 2013 wrote:

 Re: Another 8V Cam Failure
Apparently somebody from the GB owners club has been in contact with the factory and posted this on the owners forum:

The timing system of the Guzzi 1200 8V engine had significant problems with cams and tappets grinding themselves down. 

Moto Guzzi never came officially clear about this problem but towards the end of 2012, started to replace the timing system using tappet cam followers with another one using instead roller cam followers. This timing system is now also used on the new California 1400cc 

Today if you buy a new Moto Guzzi with 8V engine should have the timing system with roller cam followers 
...

The post goes on with more detail.

Originally posted by molly ... 2013 molly ... 2013 wrote:


The 1200 Sport 8V, already discontinued in Italy from this year but still available in UK, France, Holland, Germany, Japan, Switzerland, Belgium, etc, is sold with ABS included but still with the old infamous timing system, the one with tappets instead of roller cam followers! 


Still a nice looking bike Big smile

Forgot to mention that the last quote confirms your production of the 1200S. Enjoy Italy. They make great looking bikes, cars and quite a nice coffee. Probably nice looking boats too.


Edited by stu - 19 May 2019 at 19:08
Breva 1100 ABS 2006
E-Plus 20 Inch Folding Electric Bike 2018 :p
Royal Enfield Himalayan ABS 2019
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote red leader one Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2019 at 20:23
https://cdn.boatinternational.com/bi_prd/bi/library_images/TRupOEOxSX2kLXo3uVNL_Riva-Tritone-Speciale-Cadillac-Powerboat-ribot-iii-1960-1600x900.jpg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2019 at 21:04
The flat tappet issue came to light much earlier than that, indeed it was very soon after the 8 valve engine emerged.
Guzzi did try to improve things, and there were 3 variations on the flat tappets, the last version did work much more reliably, but the change to rollers was the final successful attempt. It was designed as a cure for the problem, not just a marketing ploy.

Regarding the change over dates, Guzzi have always been known to use old bits up, just look at any new model in the Tonti big block range and you will see the first off the production line were mixtures of old and new.

Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooJuicy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2019 at 21:26
Originally posted by red leader one red leader one wrote:

https://cdn.boatinternational.com/bi_prd/bi/library_images/TRupOEOxSX2kLXo3uVNL_Riva-Tritone-Speciale-Cadillac-Powerboat-ribot-iii-1960-1600x900.jpg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooJuicy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2019 at 21:27
Bellissimo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooJuicy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2019 at 21:29
In Italy even the water taxis look special
 
Tony
 
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