guzziriders.org - moto guzzi forum Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Technical > CARC models
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Starter relay, 1200 Sport 4v
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Starter relay, 1200 Sport 4v

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
Author
Message
magwa View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 Mar 2017
Location: Wales uk
Status: Offline
Points: 310
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote magwa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2017 at 15:16
Originally posted by Brian UK Brian UK wrote:

So exactly what happens when you turn on the ignition and then press the start button?

Need a bit more than "dead as a dodo".


Click no start
click is somewhere under the side panel on the offside.
Same fault as the original start to this thread

but my bike has different lighting ( x2 small) relays
and no modification to the wiring

I guess I need to get it modified

Electrics arn't my forte

Edited by magwa - 27 May 2017 at 15:24
Magwa
2002 Triumph Sprint ST

1986 Morgan 4/4
1968 mobylette
Back to Top
Brian UK View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2014
Location: Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 17641
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2017 at 17:26
Can you get near the terminals on the back of the starter solenoid? If you could all you need to do to start it is flash across from the top main terminal (from the battery) and the little spade one. Provided the ignition switch is on it will turn the engine and of course should start.
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
Back to Top
Mike H View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 May 2014
Location: East Anglia
Status: Offline
Points: 8733
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2017 at 17:57
If you're having to scrape crud off the relay terminals problee best need a new one. The insides can be similarly corroded too. Hence effectively insulating the contacts.

I always try to spray relay + fuseboxes, WD40 or ACF50, helps protect any parts that are permanently connected to battery live.


"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."
Back to Top
magwa View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 Mar 2017
Location: Wales uk
Status: Offline
Points: 310
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote magwa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2017 at 10:05
Originally posted by Mike H Mike H wrote:

If you're having to scrape crud off the relay terminals problee best need a new one. The insides can be similarly corroded too. Hence effectively insulating the contacts.

I always try to spray relay + fuseboxes, WD40 or ACF50, helps protect any parts that are permanently connected to battery live.




A new starter relay ordered, I'll put it in and if the 'problem' is cured I will then do the suggested wiring modification. I think Coolonthecoast will need to do the same modification

I cleaned each and every relay terminal today and every connection I could disconnect/ re connect. Then bike started first push of the button
I'm still going to do the wiring modification

Wd40 rules

Screwdriver pointing at the offending relay
new is about £14 from gutsibits





Edited by magwa - 29 May 2017 at 14:43
Magwa
2002 Triumph Sprint ST

1986 Morgan 4/4
1968 mobylette
Back to Top
guzzigraham View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 31 Jan 2017
Location: West Sussex
Status: Offline
Points: 169
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote guzzigraham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2017 at 16:45
I blame Magwa for mentioning it.... my 2v 1200 Sport did this to me on Saturday.  Ho hum, some wiring of relays to do me thinks!
 
I pulled it out of the shed and started it briefly with no problems. Let it run for a minute or so and then turned off, sorted a few things out, came back to it and.... click !  The first click was a biggish one which sounded like the starter being thrown ... but no rotation.  After that I'm only getting the relay click.  I expect that I could have a stuck starter and I've heard tell of gummed up workings as the old grease goes a bit waxy. 
 
I've not had a lot of time to look, so not even checked for the famous blown 15A fuse I've also seen mentioned here and there.  Oh well, some investigating to do first at the weekend.
 
I'll be interested to hear how you get on with a new relay Magwa
'68 V7 700 - March 2023
Coburn and Hughes Le Mans II - March 2022
Nuovo Falcone - May 2020 to June 2023
1200 2v Sport - 2016 to Feb 2022
T3 California - long gone

'78 Z1000 been in bits for a while
Back to Top
Brian UK View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2014
Location: Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 17641
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2017 at 16:56
When you get that clunk and no rotation it is because the solenoid has thrown in but not far enough to make the contacts which get the motor turning. Trick is to immediately flick the start button out to the kill position. This should stop the fuse blowing.
 
I did find on my starter that the solenoid had grease round the plunger which had gone sticky. Cleaned that out (and actually put a smear of light oil on it). The movement of the pinion along the shaft was quite free.
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
Back to Top
magwa View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 Mar 2017
Location: Wales uk
Status: Offline
Points: 310
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote magwa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2017 at 17:17
Originally posted by guzzigraham guzzigraham wrote:


I blame Magwa for mentioning it.... my 2v 1200 Sport did this to me on Saturday.  Ho hum, some wiring of relays to do me thinks!
 
I pulled it out of the shed and started it briefly with no problems. Let it run for a minute or so and then turned off, sorted a few things out, came back to it and.... click !  The first click was a biggish one which sounded like the starter being thrown ... but no rotation.  After that I'm only getting the relay click.  I expect that I could have a stuck starter and I've heard tell of gummed up workings as the old grease goes a bit waxy. 
 
I've not had a lot of time to look, so not even checked for the famous blown 15A fuse I've also seen mentioned here and there.  Oh well, some investigating to do first at the weekend.
 
I'll be interested to hear how you get on with a new relay Magwa


Here's the relay
http://www.gutsibits.co.uk/pr/TheShop/index.php?q=starter+relays&f=d&Model=2&search=SEARCH

My bike has 25,000miles on the clock of commuting and has lived it's life outdoors before being " restored" at 9yrs old the relays are my first port of call.
Magwa
2002 Triumph Sprint ST

1986 Morgan 4/4
1968 mobylette
Back to Top
Brian UK View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2014
Location: Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 17641
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2017 at 18:26
Well the general experience world wide is that the wiring mod is more likely to cure the problem.
 
One other thing to check and that's the big earth cable to the engine, connected to the top screw holding the starter motor cover. These are quite feeble and there isn't much depth of thread. Check they are clean and tight.
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
Back to Top
cooleronthecoast View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 07 May 2017
Location: Yorkshire Coast
Status: Offline
Points: 114
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote cooleronthecoast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2017 at 19:28
Yes, I'll certainly be doing the wiring mod when I get the opportunity.  Her indoors has degreed that house alterations take presidence so my free time is somewhat limited at the mo.Embarrassed
Back to Top
Mike H View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 May 2014
Location: East Anglia
Status: Offline
Points: 8733
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2017 at 19:30
Jeez what is it with wimmin? LOL

.

"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."
Back to Top
Brian UK View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2014
Location: Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 17641
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2017 at 22:21
Originally posted by cooleronthecoast cooleronthecoast wrote:

Yes, I'll certainly be doing the wiring mod when I get the opportunity.  Her indoors has degreed that house alterations take presidence so my free time is somewhat limited at the mo.Embarrassed
Yes, I get that problem from time to time, you have my sympathy.
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
Back to Top
GuzziSport8V View Drop Down
Falcone
Falcone


Joined: 24 Apr 2017
Location: Gosport
Status: Offline
Points: 38
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote GuzziSport8V Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2017 at 23:06
Eventually I had to replace the starter motor on mine last year.  First tried replacing the relay, and did the wiring mod, but then found the starter would sometimes not throw on properly even when taking the solenoid terminal directly to battery live.

It had previously become troublesome on a trip to the Peak District the year before that, blowing the 15A fuse and even jamming, so when I got home I cleaned out and lightly lubed the solenoid.  It held up for about a year.


Colin

1200 Sport "4V"
Back to Top
guzzigraham View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 31 Jan 2017
Location: West Sussex
Status: Offline
Points: 169
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote guzzigraham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2017 at 09:24
As an update to anyone still interested - I had a chance to look over the bike last night and it was the 15A ignition relay coil fuse that blew.  This is Fuse B in the small auxiliary fuse box
which is under the seat just forward of the frame brace which passes across the bike.
 
I have read here and in other forums that the fuse blows when there is not enough battery charge to fully engage the starter, but the electronic brain keeps pushing current through the system (even when you release the button).  There is too much current for the fuse when a steady high current runs through it but it can withstand the normal quick peaks which would happen if the starter had properly engaged. 
So my problem was a bit of a run down battery which I can look into as well as improving the wiring. Next stop Maplins for a hand full of 15A fuses.
'68 V7 700 - March 2023
Coburn and Hughes Le Mans II - March 2022
Nuovo Falcone - May 2020 to June 2023
1200 2v Sport - 2016 to Feb 2022
T3 California - long gone

'78 Z1000 been in bits for a while
Back to Top
Ken-Guzzibear View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2014
Location: Sileby Leics
Status: Offline
Points: 9454
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken-Guzzibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2017 at 12:31
So lucky Annie rides a bike so if there is EVER A CHOICE TWIXT BIKE NEEDING TLC OR HOME DESTROY IT YOURSELF ...the bike wins every time !! she really is 1:1,000,000
The Older i Get, The Better I Was
Back to Top
magwa View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 Mar 2017
Location: Wales uk
Status: Offline
Points: 310
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote magwa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2017 at 14:38
New relay fitted
problem fixed
Magwa
2002 Triumph Sprint ST

1986 Morgan 4/4
1968 mobylette
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.