guzziriders.org - moto guzzi forum Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Technical > Small Blocks
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Italian electrics
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Italian electrics

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
Message
Adam View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 127
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2018 at 19:30
No weedy thin wires or it'll act like a light bulb😃
Back to Top
Hackney View Drop Down
Falcone
Falcone


Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 17
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hackney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2018 at 12:49
So here are the results of my investigations so far:

New battery left to stand for 6 hours after filling, then charged overnight on an oxford oximiser 3x charger

voltage testing

battery disconnected 12.95

ignition off 12.94

ignition on 12.58

startup drops to 10.4 then back to 13.1 at idle

at 3000rpm 13.4


so the battery seems good and the charging system seems to be working.


measuring ampage connecting the meter in series between the battery negative terminal and the battery negative connector, taking all but the main 30amp fuse out then adding each fuse in sequence.


30 amp fuse only 7.7 m/amps

initially this reading spiked and fluctuated when I first started to test but settled after 30 seconds or so

then adding in the other fuses one by one

5 amp 10 m/amps

5 amp 50.2 m/amps

15 amp 50.2 m/amps

15 amp 50.2 m/amps

15 amp 50.2 m/amps


then the ABS fuse

20 amp 50.2 m/amps


so the biggest jump was the 5 amp that feeds the instrument panel, turn indicators and bluedash. No idea what bluedash is.... main beam indicator?

Is a 50 m/amp drain enough to kill a new fully charged battery stone dead in two weeks? I'll measure the voltage on a daily basis to see how much it's dropping, and pull the battery out and re charge it if it goes below say 11 volts. If it continues to drop then for a stop gap i'll pull the main fuse when it sits overnight until I can go further with investigating, but baring in mind i'm a total mechanical newbie that may take longer than normal and require checking back with you boys and girls.

Onwards and upwards!

A.


Back to Top
iansoady View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 23 Jul 2017
Location: Redditch
Status: Offline
Points: 2402
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iansoady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2018 at 14:32
50 mA is 1/20th of an amp so would take 20 hours to lose 1 amp-hour of capacity. I don't know what your battery capacity is but say it was 30 amp-hour that should not drain in 2 weeks, although it would be down to some extent.

13.4 volts sounds on the low side for charging at 3000 rpm but I'm not familiar with your system. I'd expect slightly over 14.
Ian
1952 Norton ES2
1986 Honda XBR500
1958-ish Greeves/Triumph in progress
Back to Top
Brian UK View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2014
Location: Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 17641
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2018 at 14:36
Did you add the fuses, or put one in after taking the others out? In other words did you check the drain on each fuse by itself? Do you have a 50mA drain on each of the 15A fuses? Or did you have a 10mA on the first + 50 on the second + 50 on the third etc. I suspect not, but your test would have told more if you only had one fuse in at a time.

The dash also contains the clock, and various other bits like the trip readings which are kept alive by the battery.
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
Back to Top
Hackney View Drop Down
Falcone
Falcone


Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 17
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hackney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2018 at 15:06
Hi iansoady,
the battery is a 12v 12Ah (10hr). I calculated that it would take 10 days to die completely.

Hi Brian,
no i added each fuse to the last working from the main fuse up noting the difference at each step to give a figure. 

SO the main fuse had a 7mA draw, the second fuse (5amp) added 2.2 mA to the draw and the third (5amp) added the other 40 mA.

Would testing each one separately have given me a different reading do you think?
Back to Top
Brian UK View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2014
Location: Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 17641
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2018 at 15:41
Probably not, just saves the maths. I'm sure those figures are quite normal.

Remember ten days to die completely means rather less time before you can't start the engine.

I hate these tiny batteries.

Can't remember offhand what each fuse controls, but removing the second 5A fuse if leaving the bike would make quite a difference.
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
Back to Top
Brian UK View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2014
Location: Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 17641
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2018 at 15:46

Looking at the wiring diagram, fuse d (5A) feeds the dash, and I'm assuming that's the one which has the higher current draw.

The only problem with removing that fuse is you lose your trip reading and have to reset the clock.
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
Back to Top
nab301 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 29 Oct 2017
Location: Dublin Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 443
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nab301 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2018 at 21:37
Originally posted by Brian UK Brian UK wrote:

Originally posted by nab301 nab301 wrote:

 

Why is that when the starter motor takes the same current, so a similar discharge test could be applied.

Maybe I was in kickstart (battery) mode ...Embarrassed      


Nigel
Keep smiling , it makes people wonder what you've been up to!
'19 CB125F,

'18 DL250 SUZUKI V STROM,'99 Bmw R1100S, '03Bullet 65 500, '93 MZ301 Saxon fun (offroad)
Back to Top
TooJuicy View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 06 May 2015
Location: Guildford, Surr
Status: Offline
Points: 759
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooJuicy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2018 at 23:16
Originally posted by iansoady iansoady wrote:

13.4 volts sounds on the low side for charging at 3000 rpm but I'm not familiar with your system. I'd expect slightly over 14.

I don't know about the V7 in particular but I believe 12v charging systems  usually provide -/- 14.4 volts DC

The Guzzi 1200 Service Manual quotes 14.2 - 14.8 volts at 5,000rpm as the acceptable range.

This low charging voltage however does not explain the quick discharge of the battery from 12.95v.

I  must say I never leave my battery more than a few days off its charger. Although when new it once lasted 2 weeks not on a charger, but the battery's performance declined after THAT experience


TONY


Edited by TooJuicy - 24 Jun 2018 at 23:21
Back to Top
Brian UK View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2014
Location: Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 17641
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2018 at 09:22
13.4v is on the low side. Check all the connections round the regulator including the earth.

I have known batteries to show almost 13 volts just off charge, but if the charging voltage is low, they do discharge quickly.
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
Back to Top
iansoady View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 23 Jul 2017
Location: Redditch
Status: Offline
Points: 2402
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iansoady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2018 at 10:36
If you check when you've just been charging the battery, you often get a spuriously high reading due to a surface charge effect. If you leave it for a couple of hours (or swith the headlight on for a few minutes) you get a more realistic reading.
Ian
1952 Norton ES2
1986 Honda XBR500
1958-ish Greeves/Triumph in progress
Back to Top
Hackney View Drop Down
Falcone
Falcone


Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 17
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hackney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2018 at 13:12
I've got the battery back on the charger to see if i can get any more into it, the charger has a maintain mode which apparently takes it from 80% charged to 100% so I'll see if another overnight makes a difference. 

The battery was about 60 quid, is this super cheap? I thought it was normal but I've seen them at nearly 200 quid so am i being a cheapskate? 

Outside of that I've read on another forum that pulling the fuse could be seen as a charming guzzi quirk! Would rather get it sorted but taking the clocks apart is way beyond me atm so pulling the fuse wins 
Back to Top
iansoady View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 23 Jul 2017
Location: Redditch
Status: Offline
Points: 2402
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iansoady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2018 at 13:20
If this keeps happening I'd be tempted to install a switch rather than keep pulling the fuse. It doesn't sound right to me though.
Ian
1952 Norton ES2
1986 Honda XBR500
1958-ish Greeves/Triumph in progress
Back to Top
TooJuicy View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 06 May 2015
Location: Guildford, Surr
Status: Offline
Points: 759
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooJuicy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2018 at 15:50
Originally posted by Hackney Hackney wrote:

On a side note I've read (too late now) to let a new battery sit for 12 hours or more after putting the electrolyte in before charging it, but the instructions with the new battery said an hour, which is what i gave it, does this sound right. 


It's too late this time but the advice I seen on charging pre-charged unfilled batteries is that, after the wait period you mention,  fully charge the battery before use. Fully charge means wait to the Bulk then Absorption stages  to finish (using CTEK charger terminology), that is when the charge rate drops from 14.4v to 13.2v. 

13.2v is the low voltage charging state is called the Float charge. The new battery should now be left on Float charge for a further 24 hours.

Add 24 hours on float to the 6-20 hours to reach Float and you have a fairly long first charge after filling battery and waiting for battery to "rest".  48 hours on charger is not wrong.

As for £60, I cannot say how much is normal for a V7 battery, but is it a reputable brand (Yuasa, Varta)?  The Yuasa battery for my 1200 cost £100 but that's bigger unit, 18ah.

Tony
Back to Top
Hackney View Drop Down
Falcone
Falcone


Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 17
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hackney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2018 at 16:17
Yuasa identical to what it came with originally so I assume it's a reasonable one. I'll give it the times you mentioned on the charger and see what comes out of it then. Does it need resting time off the charger before i fit it back in the bike? 



Edited by Hackney - 25 Jun 2018 at 16:47
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.094 seconds.