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Front brake improvement

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redmunk View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redmunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Front brake improvement
    Posted: 10 Oct 2019 at 21:26
So it’s been about a year since I got my V35 on the road after it’s rebuild, and I’m not happy with the front brake...

It’s completely stock with no modifications to the combined system. I rebuilt the calipers with new Teflon pistons and seals, replaced the rubber lines with braided ones and rebuilt the master cylinder with the Brembo kit. The master cylinder is the correct diameter one for the bike too. 

Disc is original but in very good condition with barely noticeable wear. 

The lever is rock hard...and that’s about it. If I give it a good full handed squeeze as hard as I can at 30mph, it’ll slow to a stop but in no hurry. Certainly nothing to risk locking up the wheel or strong enough to have to brace your arms against. 

My little monkey bike with 1970s 4” drum could stop quicker with its front brake! Any idea what could be wrong? Or if this is normal, any common modifications? Thanks. 
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c13pep View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote c13pep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2019 at 21:58
Front brake on my V50s have all been `wooden` and not good, currently my Monza is fitted with an Aprilia RS master cylinder and lever which works extremely well.

CHRIS
you can`t have any fun in a straight line

Monza
Honda CB77 project

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Brian UK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2019 at 22:06
The master cylinder is incorrectly specified as 12mm. This is too big for the single small block calliper.

Try to source an 11mm one somewhere. Those who have, found the brake much improved.
When I had the V50, all the braking was done on the footbrake, you just hoped you had enough space left by the time you had to put your right foot down.
Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AdrianW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2019 at 09:16
Not wishing to start a debate on linked brakes...  Bear in mind I mostly ride old British bikes...

When I got my V35 II I was surprised by the brakes. Going (largely) from drums I somehow expected more from a bike with 3 disks. However as I haven't ridden it much (carb woes) I have not really had cause to test them in any form of panic situation.

They do seem "adequate" , ie they work, just not very impressive. My bike is absolutely stock, allegedly low mileage (less than 20K Kms) and disks show virtually no signs of wear.

I put it down to the fact that only one disk works at the front from the handlebar lever. To be honest the TLS item on my Velo Venom is much better....
Maybe "they all do that Sir".....

Hope this helps..

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drøn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2019 at 09:25
FWIW I find my V50's brakes to be just fine. But then again, I'm not very experience/accustomed to anything.
They seem stock and they have stopped me fine in a few rushed situations.

I'd love to fit some lighter more modern looking rotors though, if anyone got any ideas...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote c13pep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2019 at 10:59
As a contrast to the V50 brakes my R1150RT came with servo assisted ABS brakes which certainly do take some getting used to because of the power the servos generate. Unfortunately the servos give little or no `feel` same as the V50 front brake but with a lot less lever required. When the servo unit failed on the MOT brake rollers I was extremely fortunate as the system goes into `limp` mode. Getting home was quite an experience with no facility for emergency stop not even heavy braking and having to `pump` the levers. Removing the servo unit completely transformed the BMW much the same as changing the front brake master cylinder on the V50 to its current Aprilia unit ie. more `feel`

CHRIS

you can`t have any fun in a straight line

Monza
Honda CB77 project

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Brian UK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2019 at 11:29
And when those servos fail you have no braking at all. It was a problem a few years back.

The single front brake on my Spada III registered 50% efficiency on a brake test. It worked extremely well. No servo. But to be honest, with the low weight of a bike compared to a car, servos shouldn't be required.
But the V50 has the same master cylinder but much smaller callipers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote c13pep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2019 at 11:53
The difference between the RT and the V50 is so large that a definite recalibration of the brain is required even now when I`ve removed the servos. The BMW brakes feel more akin to the 1200Sport, however both these bikes don`t have the character of the little Monza. It would just be nice to complete its registration before winter finally hits

CHRIS
you can`t have any fun in a straight line

Monza
Honda CB77 project

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AdrianW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2019 at 12:51
Best brakes I had on a bike was on my '95 Laverda 650 Sport IE..
These were incredible (as was the rest of the suspension on the bike- mine was green, Kevlar Series). Best handling bike I ever owned, sadly the motor was another matter....

The only trouble was the rear of the tank was near vertical which meant hasty application would recalibrate the tackle long before the brain got a chance...  !
Absolutely superb, they would nearly shred tarmac whilst retaining total control..

V35 brakes are nothing like these..

Cheers,

Adrian
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2019 at 14:19
The small block front brake works well if you fit a smaller diameter master cylinder. Or you would have to fit larger pistoned callipers to get the right ratio.
Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iansoady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2019 at 15:27
The problem I find is in recalibrating my brain to use the footbrake only especially as my other bike has the brake on the opposite side and my normal "panic" mode is to pull both hand levers then work out what to do with my feet. Having said that, the linked system does work very well however I have gone down the smaller master cylinder route (from a Honda Silver Wing whatever that is) and now find the front brake adequate if not earth-shaking.

The V50 (and even more so the V35) isn't exactly a road rocket and in my experience the brakes are perfectly good enough for normal (at least my normal) riding.
Ian
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote guzzigraham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2019 at 15:45
FWIW - Some time back a mate of mine was getting an 850 Commando back on the road after a long time languishing in a mutual friends garage. He made a beautiful job of restoring it but found the same thing, very wooden brakes - stiff at the lever with no feel and not much efficiency. A common ''70's gripe on all sorts of bikes. He ended up taking it to a hydraulics specialist and sleeved the front master cylinder down a wee bit to produce a very nice front stopper for the Norton which looked completely standard. Think it was a lorry braking specialist who did the work... but I'm sure there are many about who do that sort of thing.

Sounds like the easy option is to go down the route of changing the front master cylinder as Brian and others have suggested. If you have a tame hydraulics place near you they may fancy a project
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote c13pep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2019 at 16:34
Just to clarify that my current front brake master cylinder is from a Aprilia RS50 as in it`s off a moped but because it`s so over engineered it works fine. Most important of all it was cheap and it`s Brembo. At the MOT the front brake locked up on the rollers with the tester well impressed with the performance, likewise on my driveway I can do a `stoppie`.

CHRIS
you can`t have any fun in a straight line

Monza
Honda CB77 project

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redmunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2019 at 16:27
Amazing, thanks all. Sounds like my stock setup is working properly, and they were all just a bit pants! Time to hit Ebay for an RS50 master cylinder.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote c13pep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2019 at 17:06
Originally posted by redmunk redmunk wrote:

Amazing, thanks all. Sounds like my stock setup is working properly, and they were all just a bit pants! Time to hit Ebay for an RS50 master cylinder.


Either RS50 or RS125, I think even the 250 is the same, you will have to modify the brake switch wiring but no big deal. It`s also the case that the V50/3 and Monza had drilled discs as did all subsequent Vs.

CHRIS
you can`t have any fun in a straight line

Monza
Honda CB77 project

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