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Full face or Open?

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Simond View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2022 at 07:23
Thanks guys, I’ve posted on three fora, and the answers were broadly positive re flip-front, but there is a bit more perspective here.

Price-wise, a couple of quid per week will buy you a £500 helmet and peace of mind, though if that were cheaper, I wouldn’t mind!  

I think the only concerning negative thing I’ve seen re the Neotec was the MCN review which said that if you open the visor in the rain, water will run down the inside.  That might be annoying.


I wasn’t aware that some shops allow test rides, that would definitely get my attention, I’ll have to see who does that locally.

Thanks again
Simon 

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Andy M View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andy M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2022 at 10:18
Originally posted by Simond Simond wrote:

.. a £500 helmet and peace of mind


I do hope you aren't assuming high selling price equates to greater protection?

Selling price is set by what the market will pay. Graphics and brand names work to achieve this. 

The data http://sharp.dft.gov.uk/ backs this up. You can get a top rated helmet for £150 and a poor one for £600.

Reviews and going to try them on are the only way to find out about fit and features that might suit you above knowing the tested level.

Andy 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iansoady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2022 at 10:31
Andy - that link isn't correct, it's https://sharp.dft.gov.uk/ (https not http).

Sadly they don't test open face helmets. You can actually get a top rated helmet for £70 - made by Nitro, who make my open face model. https://sharp.dft.gov.uk/helmets/nitro-aikido/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guzzi1000SE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2022 at 10:53
Originally posted by iansoady iansoady wrote:

You can actually get a top rated helmet for £70 - made by Nitro, who make my open face model. https://sharp.dft.gov.uk/helmets/nitro-aikido/

I totally agree.

But it's not just about the star rating, it's also about fit, finish and if you want to pay more for the added features that more expensive helmets tend to have, but not always. 

For instance, I like a having a retractable sun visor, but my understanding is Aria don't fit them as they believe it can compromise the safety of the helmet? 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2022 at 18:02
Originally posted by Guzzi1000SE Guzzi1000SE wrote:

Originally posted by iansoady iansoady wrote:

You can actually get a top rated helmet for £70 - made by Nitro, who make my open face model. https://sharp.dft.gov.uk/helmets/nitro-aikido/

I totally agree.

But it's not just about the star rating, it's also about fit, finish and if you want to pay more for the added features that more expensive helmets tend to have, but not always. 

For instance, I like a having a retractable sun visor, but my understanding is Aria don't fit them as they believe it can compromise the safety of the helmet? 



To me, Arai’s stance make sense.
Internal sun visors are not supported by the outer shell, like the clear visor.
In an accident, if the unfortunate rider’s head is slammed against a fairing screen or handlebar with the clear visor up and the sun visor down.  A direct hit on the sun visor will at the very least cut your nose pretty bad.

The solution is to always keep the clear visor partly down but I mostly see riders with only the sun visor down.



Edited by Steph - 21 Sep 2022 at 18:07
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Simond View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2022 at 21:47
Originally posted by Andy M Andy M wrote:

Originally posted by Simond Simond wrote:

.. a £500 helmet and peace of mind


I do hope you aren't assuming high selling price equates to greater protection?

Selling price is set by what the market will pay. Graphics and brand names work to achieve this. 

The data http://sharp.dft.gov.uk/ backs this up. You can get a top rated helmet for £150 and a poor one for £600.

Reviews and going to try them on are the only way to find out about fit and features that might suit you above knowing the tested level.

Andy 

Thanks Andy,

No, not assuming, I spent much of my adult life explaining that to my mother (albeit not about crash helmets).

That said, whilst you might not get what you pay for, you most certainly won’t get what you don’t pay for.  
This will be reflected in the fit, function, appearance and longevity of the product, as well as in its objective performance.  My preference would be for a five star Sharp rating, and approval to ECE 22.06. 

And as has been oft repeated, try it on, make sure it fits comfortably. 

(And I have no desire for graphics, though I find my integral sunvisor absolutely indispensable.  Shoei do say that you should use it behind, not in place of the proper visor)

Atb
Simon


Edited by Simond - 21 Sep 2022 at 21:54
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Andy M View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andy M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 11:21
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I'm always torn on things like sun visors.

Name one person who has a scar on their nose because of one? We can make a list of people starting with me who have struggled with low sun and not crashed because they had lightly tinted glasses/goggles/visors that were also not misted up. You can design a tank without any means for the crew to see out and they won't get hit by that one in a million bullet coming in through a vision slit, but the first thing they'll know about the killer missile is when it explodes.

I wore an open face for years because they don't mist. Pinlock and better vents now allows the best of both, but honestly I think I'd still take preventative vision over post-crash protection. Same goes for comfort, you can't concentrate on not crashing if your 6-star rated lid gives you a headache. I keep buying HJC's because they fit well. 

Andy 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim Mac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 11:44
rain drops will form on the inside if you it flipped up, can be a nuisance if there is a lot
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken-Guzzibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 12:11
I tried flip front lid a Caberg find them heavy and whilst great in the sun with the drop down sun visor in rain it was horrible ... even with the pinlock , it was also noisy.

Open face tried an Arai, ok but noisy and not that good, bought a Davida Jet very very light very comfy, quiet with great finish in hot weather there are no vents to keep your head cool.

Full face Arai the basic one very quiet and light with pinlock fitted in Summer one that has reactalight in it, the vents keep my head cool this is the comfiest lid of the lot I added one of the helmet skirts to the bottom.

In the past I have owned Shoei lids as well as going back to the 70's an Owen made to measure lid, which at the time was the top lid, compared to modern lids they were heavy and the visor was awful. 

In conclusion if you ride all year round the flip lids are good however they are a compromise, not that cheap often heavy. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmee54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 15:08
I have riden all of my classic bikes with an open face helmet for decades.
They are lighter, give better vision and let you smell the roses.

I bought a ROOF flip over helmet a few years ago which had a 180 degree chin bar but didn't get on with it. I have just bought another 180 degree helmet (LS2) that arrived this morning. I was a bit worried I would turn into a bobble head and I believe my concerns were founded! It seems all helmets are huge now to comply with ever increasing safety certifications.
My new helmet might end up living permanently on the shelf - we'll see.

I enjoy a ride much more in an open face helmet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iansoady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 16:18
Couldn't agree more. I tried a full face but felt absolutely claustrophobic in it. I also have a theory that if oncoming vehicle conductors can actually see your face they're more likely to recognise a fellow human being and be slightly more caring. I can't think of a way to test this with a double blind RCT trial however......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guzzi1000SE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 16:27
I know everyone on here will be aware of this but just in case, don't forget most helmets have a recommended life span of five years after purchase or seven years after the production date.  They should have a production date on the inside somewhere.  When looking for my last helmet I came across a really good deal on a particular helmet, just as I was about to purchase, I remembered to check the manufacturing date, which stated the helmet was nearly four years old.  I queried this in the shop stating that this particular manufacture recommended changing your helmet seven years after this date, therefore meaning this helmet was only to be used for the next three years?  The shop's reply, they are stock we have had in the back for sometime, that's why the deal is so good, I walked away.  I finished up waiting and buying a full face HJC in the black Friday deals and as I write this, they are still more expensive now than when I bought mine almost two years ago.     
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 18:47
Thanks for that, good advice for all of us, I guess

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andy M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2022 at 08:14
The time constraints are set by people who want you to buy a new helmet.

Plastic (and rubber) are degraded by acids (sweat), UV light, moisture and high temperatures. A new helmet, in its box, in a storeroom at 15 degrees is barely degrading (the St. Greta cultists hate them because they take a millennia to compost).

Convert the 5 years to a potential worst case in days, its a dispatcher in Bangkok and is over 1800 days. If you rode every Sunday, washed the liner and stored it in its bag in a cool cupboard it would last 30 years.

The truth is somewhere in between, but I wouldn't get hung up on the numbers unless you are out every day. The straps wear through first.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KirriePete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2022 at 11:24
Basic rule of thumb - if it fits snugly, the lining & straps aren't worn out and the shell isn't visibly faded, it's probably fine.

As an instructor I go through (flippy) helmets every 2 years or so, they just get slack on my head despite washing the lining regularly, so they end up as play helmets for my grandsons.  My playtime helmet is an old Shoei I've had for 12 years and it's only this year I'm thinking of replacing it as the vinyl on the lining and straps is flaking - it does spend a lot of time in it's bag in a cupboard.

At the end of the day, it's your head, go with whatever you feel is right.
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