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Lodola 235 engine seize

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joel View Drop Down
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    Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 13:50
Hello, I am a new member here and found the forum in a google search.  I have a 1958 Lodola 235GT.  Yesterday I was out riding around town and the engine stumbled and the rear wheel locked up.  It was bit scary I was in 4th gear going about 40 MPH.  I was able to start it up again and ride back home with no issues.  
Does this sound like the engine seized?

If so I suppose I will have to teardown the engine and see what the issue is.  There is a wealth of information on the repairs of loop frames and tonti bikes out there which allowed me to  successfully rebuild a 1976 T3 guzzi and an eldo.  Not to mention the availability of parts.  But with the Lodola I am a bit hesitant.  I have the manual but it is light in content and information for a shade tree mechanic like myself.  

What should I look at first?  I'm thinking conrod bearings.  Any help or suggestions would greatly be appreciated.
Joël
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Dave P. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 14:07
It sounds like a piston seizure. How long did you wait before you started the engine again, long enough for the piston to cool down??
I would think that a rod bearing seizing would result in some clatter once the engine was re-started. Did the engine noticeably loose power before it stopped?

Oh yes, and welcome to the forum.
TO LIVE OUTSIDE THE LAW YOU MUST BE HONEST.

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joel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote joel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 14:22
Hi Dave

Thanks for the quick reply.  I did not wait long at all.  As soon as I cam to a stop I got off the bike checkecked my rear tire and started the bike up again.  I did not notice any strange noises after that.  The bike ran fine after that.  Prior to bike bike screeching to a halt I noticed the engine stumlble as if I was running out of gas.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 14:40
A plain big end bearing makes a lot of clatter before anything else, so I would agree with Dave.
But does the Lodola not have a roller big end bearing?
The small end/gudgeon pin bearing wouldn't cause the wheel to stop, neither would the main bearings.

Lift the head off, you might see some marks in the bore, but most likely the marking will be on the piston skirt.
Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote joel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 14:59

Thanks Brian in the parts manual it does look like the big end has a roller bearing.  If that bearing went it would seem that a horrible noise would follow.  I will lift the head and inspect the piston and bore.  Are there replacement pistons available for the Lodola?
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Dave P. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 15:23
I think a roller big end is highly unlikely to seize unless it is completely starved of oil so I'm definitely going for a nipped up piston. The running out of fuel stumble also points to a piston seizing.
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joel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote joel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 15:26
What would cause this?  

I assume this would cause damage to the piston and bore.  I will pull the head off next weekend to see what kind of damage there might be.  

I'm currently looking for possible replacement piston on line.  Not having much luck yet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeffles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 15:44
Good afternoon, 

Potential nip-ups could be several things, temperature, too much exuberance with the loud-lever (!), incorrect oil grade, slight starvation for a number of reasons from blockages to cavitation to pump or filter issues. Obviously that makes a heap of assumptions and may be way off line, just some suggestions really.

I'm seeing a piston listed on Ebay, as well as full barrel and piston set, also seems that Ricambi in Italy have new pistons available.

Hope that helps!

Jeff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 15:50
How long have you owned the bike? Has it been recently re-bored? What is its history?
TO LIVE OUTSIDE THE LAW YOU MUST BE HONEST.

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joel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote joel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 16:04
Thanks Jeff

I am running SAE 40 as indicated in the manual.  I will take a look at the filter as well other areas that might cause oil starvation.  I haven't gotten into the oil pump on this bike but probably should.

I have owned the Lodola for about 18 years, don't know much about the history prior to my owning it.  I haven't gotten into the engine just rewired, made new cables, clean carbs and other minor work.  It has always ran and sounded fine.  

Maybe it is a case of to much exuberance.  I was riding on a slight up hill in 4th gear full throttle.  
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Dave P. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 16:25
Hmm, It does seem very odd that after all those years it would suddenly seize. Keep us informed Joel.
TO LIVE OUTSIDE THE LAW YOU MUST BE HONEST.

1971 V7 Special. 1972 850GT.
1970 T120 Bonnie. 2009 500 Bullet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote c13pep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 17:15
Maybe it`s not the engine but the back wheel etc. 
just a thought

CHRIS
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joel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote joel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 17:46
Hi Chris

As soon as the rear wheel locked the first thing I did was check the wheel to see if there was anything wrong.  It spun freely and the rear brake seems to be working properly.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iansoady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2021 at 12:26
Was it rebored before you bought it? Engine machine shops tend to use modern clearances unless instructed otherwise, which can lead to this sort of temporary seizure when the engine is given a bit of hard work. As it freed off I'd suggest piston seizure rather than anything else.

I always err on the generous side - a couple of thou over standard for a 500 single won't make any material difference to performance etc but will reduce the possibility of tightening up. Some years ago I restored a 1931 Sunbeam 350 which had been previously rebored an it seized as soon as given any work to do. After having a couple of thou honed out by a local machine shop it was fine.
Ian
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote joel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2021 at 12:33
Hi Ian

Unfortunately I do not know the history of the bike before I acquired it.  So do not know if it was rebored or not.  I'm hoping to take a look at the cylinder this weekend.
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