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V7 '12 cranks, but doesnt start

Printed From: guzziriders.org - moto guzzi forum
Category: Technical
Forum Name: General Electrical issues
Forum Description: Not specific to any one group of models.
URL: http://www.guzziriders.org/forum_posts.asp?TID=14665
Printed Date: 27 Sep 2022 at 21:58
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: V7 '12 cranks, but doesnt start
Posted By: mailash
Subject: V7 '12 cranks, but doesnt start
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2022 at 07:24
Hi All,

I read some of the threads here to try to figure out where the start process is failing. The v7 sat a 6 months in the garage and then I charged the battery using a tender which indicates the battery is good. I had just replaced the battery 10 months ago - Motobatt.

When I start the v7 2012 racer ( off the kickstand and clutch pulled in), it cranks 4/5 times (not sure if cranks is the right term - the sound is a clanking sound coming from the starter/solenoid area). However, the bike doesnt start. I have taken a video, not sure I can post it here. If needed, I will post on youtube and add a link. But I suspect the experts know what is happening here.


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Guzzi v7 2012 Racer



Replies:
Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2022 at 08:20
Was the battery connected to the bike during that 6 month lay-up?
If so then it would be completely flat at the end of that period, and it's unlikely that it would recharge to the point of being able to reliably start the engine.
What I think you are hearing is what is called "machine gunning".
When you press the start button the solenoid pulls in, connects the starter motor, but this load is too much for the battery and the voltage drops to the point the solenoid drops out. The battery volts rise again so the solenoid pulls in again, and so on.
The probability is that you need a new battery.
And next time the bike is laid up for more than 3 or 4 weeks, disconnect the battery.


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Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.


Posted By: Ken-Guzzibear
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2022 at 10:57
Sounds like battery is dead the AGM batteries once fully discharged can show as OK on some tenders BUT in truth are not capable of the grunt needed to start an engine.

Easy to test try a different battery if it fires right up there you go.

Worth checking no corrosion on terminals and the kill switch is ok in the UK damp climate you often need to flick the kill switch a few times to get it all good.

I suspect Brian is right there


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The Older i Get, The Better I Was


Posted By: guzzwiz
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2022 at 11:14

The Valeo starters manufactured until some (unknown) date are prone to loosening of their permanent magnets, as these are only fixated by some epoxy glue; later versions have additional stainless stelle cleats for an andditional fixation.
Some whole magnets or fractional pieces thereof can make the starter turning slow or even block it. This failure is well-known, but for me it is unclear if starters from 2012 still are affected. 

Rudi


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presently a modified 1000G5 and a V7classic; (V50PA sold)


Posted By: Ken-Guzzibear
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2022 at 11:20
Not so much of an issue on newer ones but good point. Someone I know bought one of the £50 odd cheap starters off e-bay a few yrs ago now and seems to be fine. 

Pretty sure Valeo sorted that old chestnut well before 2012 tho' but worth checking I guess


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The Older i Get, The Better I Was


Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2022 at 14:04
I'm fairly sure that by 2012 Valeo had sorted that problem. And I think the starter might be Bosch anyway.


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Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.


Posted By: Andy M
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2022 at 14:12
If you have a car battery and jump leads, connect the totally dead battery and leave for a few hours. The charge level will even out across the pair to the point a charger might actually then recover it instead of refusing to try. The dumber the charger the better. The car battery will also need charging.

It won't extend the life of the dead bike battery by much, but can prove that's the problem and keep you riding until the courier turns up with a new one.

Andy 


Posted By: mailash
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2022 at 17:58
Would getting a multimeter and testing the battery not work?  If not, I read something about load testing is more accurate, are there easy DIY ways to do that?


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Guzzi v7 2012 Racer


Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2022 at 18:37
A multimeter can work but you have to add a load on the battery to see what happens.
So you connect the meter across the battery terminals and note the voltage. Then turn on the ignition, see if the voltage drops much. Then watch the meter and push the start button. The volts will drop, but shouldn't go below about 10v, if it's dropping much more (8v or less) then it's clear the battery can't handle the load of the starter motor.


-------------
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.


Posted By: mailash
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2022 at 00:02
Here's the video. This this time with Multimeter attached.  I connected a multimeter which shows 255 on a DV 200 setting - I get the same reading if I connect this multimeter to my car which works flawlessly. The battery seems ok, because I tried to start this many times 10-12 times by now, but the voltage always comes back to 255 reading.

https://youtube.com/shorts/HAW51h3QLTA?feature=share" rel="nofollow - https://youtube.com/shorts/HAW51h3QLTA?feature=share


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Guzzi v7 2012 Racer


Posted By: Ken-Guzzibear
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2022 at 07:42
Take a read of the click no start thread that may help BUT there are easy ways to figure it 

Swap out start relay
Swap out battery 

If that does not work starter is suspect

Old school me 


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The Older i Get, The Better I Was


Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2022 at 08:29
Without any doubt whatsoever, your battery is the problem.
You can see the meter reading drops to half when you hit the start button, clear case of a dud battery.
You would be better off using the 20v DC range though.
255 in itself is a meaninless number, should be 12.6v or more but the fact that it drops to half that, meaning the battery volts are dropping to about 6, means your battery is dud.


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Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.


Posted By: mailash
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2022 at 09:02
I dont have a spare battery to test - Can I use my car battery to jump start the Guzzi and confirm the battery is the issue?

I used the DC 20V setting, but with that only gives "1" on the reading. Need to get a new multimeter.


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Guzzi v7 2012 Racer


Posted By: c13pep
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2022 at 09:32
Try jump starting it from the car

CHRIS 


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you can`t have any fun in a straight line

Monza



Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2022 at 10:16
It's possible your multmeter needs a new battery too.
Yes, use the car battery.


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Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.


Posted By: Mike H
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2022 at 18:46
What Brian said, that 'machine gunning' noise is the solenoid rattling in and out. Battery is toast.

Also can't understand why the meter is showing double the Volts it should be. Confused







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"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."



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