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Printed From: guzziriders.org - moto guzzi forum
Category: Technical
Forum Name: CARC models
Forum Description: Breva, Stelvio and so on.
URL: http://www.guzziriders.org/forum_posts.asp?TID=9513
Printed Date: 18 Sep 2021 at 11:59
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: clocks
Posted By: melonman
Subject: clocks
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2018 at 16:27
hi all ,
got caught in a major dowmpour last week.
got bike home ok but then after a couple of hours my dials started blipping eg breva logo on lcd and dial needles just moving 5mm or so
all at the same time.
this is with the ignition off of course.
turn ignition on and all works fine.
bike starts and runs spot on.
disconnected all plugs and sprayed with elec spray
no effect.
i now have the clocks on the radiator to try and dry out.
any suggestions
regards craig



Replies:
Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2018 at 16:30
sorry forgot to say
Breva 1100 2005


Posted By: c13pep
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2018 at 16:40
Putting clocks on radiator could be a mistake much better to stick them in biscuit tin with a load of rice and let them dry slowly. Look to drill lowest part of clock case to allow any excess water out and air to circulate for the future, once dried out.
CHRIS

-------------
you can`t have any fun in a straight line

Monza



Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2018 at 16:51
Thanks chris
Hoping they dry out
Will drill drain holes later
Craig


Posted By: BobV7
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2018 at 16:55
A spell in the airing cupboard also works well. (If you've got one!)

-------------
V7 Classic Black and gold was the best. But green & black was nice too. Now blue is in!


Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2018 at 17:17
uploads/6/Clocks1.pdf" rel="nofollow - uploads/6/Clocks1.pdf

Read through this. It also tells you how to stop it happening, and why you should not drill through the lowest point to drain the unit.


-------------
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.


Posted By: TooJuicy
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2018 at 18:00
I'm still waiting for the pleasure....Confused...on my 1200 Sport (Breva thing).

In the mean time, in absence of taking tools to my instruments, I have taken an approach from my Lazy Man's Book of Bodges - each year I squeeze a bead of (clear) silicon grease along the bottom edges of clocks, between glass & chrome trim.  I've ridden through biblical rainstorms, even full-on floods, and as yet, after five years' riding the instruments have not misted - although often water is seen beading or puddling along my strip of silicon grease.  

Doubtless now having confessed my Lazy Bodge & tempted fate, next time out those instruments will mist up something rotten Stern Smile

Tony


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2018 at 18:04
cheers Brian
that is worth its weight in guzzi clocks.
hope i can save them.
regards craig


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2018 at 18:14
i guess on a 2005 guzzi it hasnt done bad.
been out in plenty of storms as you said tony
but i guess this was the straw that broke the donkeys back.
i have read of a company in the netherlands that can refurb with a warranty for a lot less than new clocks.
hope it dont come to that
regards craig


Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2018 at 20:29
Details in this post.
http://www.guzziriders.org/breva-1100-dash-boards_topic4465.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.guzziriders.org/breva-1100-dash-boards_topic4465.html


-------------
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2018 at 20:36
Thats the 1 brian
Cheers
I am assuming it is the clocks that are faulty and not something else
Craig


Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2018 at 21:37
As you can see from the pictures in that article, the printed circuit board is very close to the bottom of the unit, so any moisture in there will affect the board and cause shorts. Water does conduct electricity quite well. See if it improves when dried out.
I doubt if anything else could cause your problem.


-------------
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.


Posted By: Zecis
Date Posted: 05 Dec 2018 at 19:11
There was a recall way back when... mine were changed when well out of warranty FOC during a service when I'd done about 20000 miles... I've never had a problem since. It may be worth seeing if the recall can still be activated ??

-------------
Regards Adam
Located near Stonehenge
...A 1200sport (2 valve with stage 1), Daytona RS and a tatty LeMans


Posted By: Tris
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2018 at 07:37
As a precaution, suck on each of the vents on the back and see if any of them DON'T pass air

My clocks misted up until I discovered that the bottom LH vent (from the back) was blocked 

Opened it up and they haven't misted up since

Interestingly, I luckily bought a set of secondhand clocks cheap to cannibalise for the LCD (I suspect a dodgy connection on my LCD) and had the same blocked vent 


-------------
2017 V9 Roamer
2005 Breva 1100 - sold
1994 California - sold


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2018 at 09:42
Thanks for all replies
Not sure if 2005 bike woul be covered by a warranty or recall
Although my last car was recalled by suzuki after 10 years for a seatbelt fault
Maybe worth a punt.
Good call on checking vents
Thanks craig


Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2018 at 09:58
AFAIK recalls have no time limit (within reason of course). They are not connected to the warranty.


-------------
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.


Posted By: Chris950s
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2018 at 10:24
Unless it is a safety issue Piaggio are shy about recalling faults. Being out of warranty you would have to prove a full dealer service and even then only if it is a known fault they might supply the parts but you would have to pay for the labour at a Moto Guzzi dealer's workshop. 

I think you would have more chance of a moon walk. 


-------------
Chris and Karen - Essex
2011 Stelvio NTX, 1974 950S (750S replica still in bits), 1966 Triumph T100SS 53 years young this year!


Posted By: Chris950s
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2018 at 10:26
Originally posted by Brian UK Brian UK wrote:

AFAIK recalls have no time limit (within reason of course). They are not connected to the warranty.
My post was guided by my recent experience getting new camshafts and roller followers on my Stelvio. I would not hold your breath.

-------------
Chris and Karen - Essex
2011 Stelvio NTX, 1974 950S (750S replica still in bits), 1966 Triumph T100SS 53 years young this year!


Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2018 at 11:08
The camshaft issue was never involved in a recall, it was always dealt with under the "warranty" which was extended in special circumstances only. (Which meant there were many, many hoops to jump through before you had any chance of claiming).

I have to admit, I had never heard of the dash being involved in any recall. As you said, recalls are normally reserved for safety issues.


-------------
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2018 at 13:20
hi all ,
the clock saga continues.
had the clocks in a warm cupboard for 4 or five days.
plugged them back in and exactly the same apart from when i turn ignition on all the dash instruments flash on and off every 3 seconds and now the bike wont start at all.
so i assume the clocks have deteriorated further.
any body have any idea if i will do any damage trying to start the bike without the clocks in place just to check if it will still run ?
i think the clocks need to go to a proffesional to be looked at.
at least the bike is off the road for winter.
regards craig


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2018 at 19:15
hi
does anyone know if clocks from a 1200 sport would work with a breva 1100?
would there be imobiliser issues.
thanks craig


Posted By: Mike H
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2018 at 20:14
Originally posted by melonman melonman wrote:

hi all ,
the clock saga continues.
had the clocks in a warm cupboard for 4 or five days.
plugged them back in and exactly the same apart from when i turn ignition on all the dash instruments flash on and off every 3 seconds and now the bike wont start at all.
so i assume the clocks have deteriorated further.


Must still be water trapped inside and can't escape. You may have to take the housing apart?

Only slightly relevant because it's also electronic, I had a Rita amplifier leave me at the mercy of the RAC after an extremely wet weekend trip to Manchester and back, where it absolutely p!ssed down both ways, I had to have it off and apart, there was half an egg cup full of water in it. No way was it going to dry out without taking the cover off.







-------------
"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2018 at 22:55
I can get a set of 1200 sport clocks
But they have no user code
And not sure if the pin plug is the same as brevas


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2018 at 08:50
It seems a set of clock with no user code is useless.
There appears to be no way to reset the code because the dash wont recognise my keys !!!!!
Craig


Posted By: c13pep
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2018 at 09:05

Must still be water trapped inside and can't escape. You may have to take the housing apart?

[/QUOTE]

If this is the case then you need something to absorb the water ie. dried rice or a caravan dehumidifier

The trouble with sitting the clocks in a warm place for a time is that the water disappears by condensation and is likely to form elsewhere inside the case

CHRIS

-------------
you can`t have any fun in a straight line

Monza



Posted By: Mike H
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2018 at 20:14
I had a simple handlebar time clock do this, albeit small, leaving it somewhere warm indoors wasn't the whole story still had to be taken apart to get all the water out.



-------------
"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2018 at 11:08
Hi
question for everyone.
when trying to input a user code on a guzzi (breva 1100 )is there a limit to how many attempts you get eg 3 strikes your locked out ?
i have a second hand set of clocks coming but no user code.
i was going to attempt the usual user codes eg 00000,11111,12345,54321 before i give up and send them away to be sorted.the clocks are from a 1200 sport so maybe the service code is worth a try
anyone know it please.
craig


Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2018 at 12:15
Certainly try all the zeros as that's the default code. Don't know if there is a limit to the number of times you can try though. So far as I can see the user manual makes no mention.
I assume you don't have the keys either.
I know one service person who always uses the owner's date of birth. So you could be there for years trying.


-------------
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2018 at 12:47
Thanks brian
I have my 2 keys but not the ones from the dash.
Carmo say they can copy all the codes from my old clock to the new ones
Then plug and play
Craig


Posted By: Ken-Guzzibear
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 12:24
Jeez life is way easier with the older carb bikes innit, even the Cali EV does not have this nonsense .... Imagine a Diavel getting water ingress or one of the big BMW/Honda that'd light em up

-------------
The Older i Get, The Better I Was


Posted By: Tris
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 12:35
I've just had a thought, and there is one other thing that might be worth checking before you send the clocks off

My 05 Breva 1100 got dragged home in a van after a ride in the rain and I eventually tracked the fault to a shorting speed sensor 

See here  https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=91817.0" rel="nofollow - https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=91817.0

So, it might be worth unplugging the speed sensor and see if the problem is goes away.

Mine was bad enough to blow the fuse, but yours might be more intermittent perhaps

The plug is under the tank on the RH side of the bike 



-------------
2017 V9 Roamer
2005 Breva 1100 - sold
1994 California - sold


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2018 at 08:44
Plugged in the dash i got off a 1200 sport all lights up sweeps dials but the digital box on dash is blank.clocks are off abs model mine is non abs
Off to carmo me thinks
Any ideas ?


Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2018 at 09:07
Those two would not be compatible.

There was a place in Norfolk (I think) mentioned somewhere here a week or so bak, might be an alternative to sending it to Holland.


-------------
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2018 at 10:59
All,
checked speed sensor , all looks good at the fork leg but need to pull the tank and unplug to see if it makes any difference.
Brian got a reply from the guys in norfolk ,they said they would have a look but no promises.
went back to the bike after trying my original clocks (they just keep flashing and sweeping ignition on or off )and the doner clocks from a 1200 sport (they lit up,dial sweep but nothing in square lcd
window )
at this point i had nothing at the starter or indicators only horn and headlight.
checked all my fuses again just in case,all good.
no idea why ,but i plugged original clocks back in.
same result , erratic sweeping.
then all of a sudden , sweep , stop ,neutral light hazards flashed for 5 seconds then it just sat daring me to press the starter.
here we go !!!
springs into life as if FU** all had ever been wrong.
left it to warm up,scared to turn it off.
but off restart several times not a glitsch.
gonna leave it a couple of hours and try again.
i can only assume the last of the moisture has gone ?
still not sure why the 1200 clocks did not work and i am reluctant to plug them back in.
craig


Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2018 at 16:50
The 1200 clocks were from an ABS bike. They use the front ABS sensor for the speedo, but yours uses the speed sensor.
The 1200 clock would have been looking for the ABS connection, and of course wouldn't find it.

But pleased yours is now toeing the line. Yes possibly all the moisture has dried out now, including the speed sensor.

The speed sensors are known to be a bit dodgy in wet weather, and it would be worth you looking at yours, and adding some sort of protective coating to it, especially round where the cable entry is.


-------------
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2018 at 19:36
Hi brian
Checked the speed sensor at front fork all looks ok but will put some sealant round it anyway.
My clocks are not completely back to normal still the odd glitch so may still need to have them looked at.
Hazard triangle is flashing on dash instead of rev limit light for imobiliser.but the bike starts and everything works so thats good.
I may look for somewere local to have a look at them.there appear to be more issues when the ignition is off.
When on and running clocks work perfect
Craig


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2018 at 17:22
hi
has anyone got any 1st hand experience of scorpio electronics in norfolk?
website looks impressive
received an email from them and if they cant repair clocks they only charge £25 plus vat to diagnose.
just looking for feedback
craig


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2019 at 13:56
All
sent clocks off to scorpio 2 weeks ago.
spoke to the guy today and they cannot find anything wrong with them.
not even any water ingress.
I sent videos with the clocks showing the one and only issue that remains with them.
when the ignition is off the breva logo flashes up on the lcd screen as it does when you start the bike.
they are gonna bench test again to see if they can make it glitch.
totally baffled now.the bike starts,runs and everything works as it should apart from the above glitch
any ideas ?
the guy at scorpio seems spot on to deal with.
craig


Posted By: Tris
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2019 at 07:47
Good to hear positive reports about Scorpio - I'd picked up their name from the bloke that fitted my new tyres the other week and wondered what they were like

However, here's thought, lets assume that Scorpio are correct and there is nothing wrong with the clocks. If that's correct, then the cause of the issue must come from somewhere else

I'm wondering if the ignition switch could be doing something unexpected? Its certainly positioned in the right place to fill up with water in a storm and cause strange events



-------------
2017 V9 Roamer
2005 Breva 1100 - sold
1994 California - sold


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2019 at 08:07
Thats my thoughts
I guess if theres a short in the ignitionit could allow blips of power to the dash which may cause breva logo to show and about 10mm of movement on the dial needles.
If you can picture turning your key for a split second every30 seconds or so thats what i have.i videod it and will try and upload it.


Posted By: Tris
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2019 at 08:16
I'm sure that there's a thread doing the rounds at the moment on one of the MG forum as to how to fix the ignition switch on a Norge - but I can't find it. 

If I track it down I'll post a link


-------------
2017 V9 Roamer
2005 Breva 1100 - sold
1994 California - sold


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2019 at 09:56
That would be good to read
Gonna pull the ecu plug and spry with contact cleaner just in case but the bike runs spot on.
Its a shame there is no workaround for the dash 2 basic clocks would be fine by me
Craig


Posted By: Tris
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2019 at 10:06
Originally posted by melonman melonman wrote:

That would be good to read
Gonna pull the ecu plug and spry with contact cleaner just in case but the bike runs spot on.
Its a shame there is no workaround for the dash 2 basic clocks would be fine by me
Craig


I have had exactly the same thoughts in the past Craig and .......... there might be Wink

I read in passing a while back on GuzziTech IIRC that the CARC maps can be loaded into the previous IAW 59 AM ECU that is plug and play for engine operations. 

The beauty of that is that it doesn't have the link to the dash for the immobiliser Thumbs Up

I've just filed that away at the back of my mind for the time being, but it will be a darn site easier, if true, than going down the Microsquirt route!!

Tris 


-------------
2017 V9 Roamer
2005 Breva 1100 - sold
1994 California - sold


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2019 at 10:55
Hi tris
Not sure i follow your last post
Which is down to me not understanding not your explanation.
Do you mean different ecu without the canbus to the dash ?
Any ideas on how easy an ignition is to replace or repair.
Would a dose of contact cleaner in ignition do any harm
Craig


Posted By: Tris
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2019 at 13:40
If I have it right, there is no CanBus connection on the 59M to the dash for the imobiliser but it will accept the maps from the 5AM. More reseach is need though

Microsquirt is the small size Megasquirt which is a DIY ECU go here  http://megasquirt.info/" rel="nofollow - http://megasquirt.info/

We have all the sensors needed on the bike already so all you need to do is hook them up to the Microsquirt and map the heck out of it and put whatever set of gauges you like on the bike essentially

Sounds easy when you say it fast!

Re ECUs and injected bikes in general - well I'm on the same steep learning curve you are I suspect!




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2017 V9 Roamer
2005 Breva 1100 - sold
1994 California - sold


Posted By: Wits
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2019 at 16:00
Originally posted by melonman melonman wrote:

That would be good to read
Gonna pull the ecu plug and spry with contact cleaner just in case but the bike runs spot on.
Its a shame there is no workaround for the dash 2 basic clocks would be fine by me
Craig
Also check the earth to the ECU, can cause problems if corrosion where the earth meets frame...
Sotted on another post from Brian....


-------------
BMW 1200RTLC carbon BLack
Breva 1100 2005 in Black SOLD.....
St George's Telford Shropshire.


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2019 at 17:51
Tris
were does the other end of the speed sensor plug in ?
just read your post regarding that sensor issue you had.
craig


Posted By: Tris
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 07:42
Its a white 3 pin plug tucked between the air box and the frame on the right hand side of the bike

Looks like this



You might be able to get at it by just moving the tank back a bit, but I'd suggest that the first time you get the tank out of the way so that "the dog can see the rabbit" as we used to say in less PC times

I'd also pull and clean/re-seat fuses D & E. They both feed the ECU which if they're dicky they could cause an issue


-------------
2017 V9 Roamer
2005 Breva 1100 - sold
1994 California - sold


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 15:01
thanks for all the replies.
i have had the speed sensor out of its fork mount today and there is a small gap at the bottom of the plastic boot not sure if its enough to cause a problem it does not look damaged the rest of it is fine but need to remove tank and check plug end.
removed headlight and with clocks out of the way i can see the ecu
WHY OH WHY IS IT THERE ?????
anyway a visual check and all looks good.
squarted contact cleaner on all connections i could get at.
now i need to find the frame earth from the ecu ?
once clocks are back i will start a process of elimination.
starting with ecu fuses.
i still think the ignition may be faulty but what do i know.
i gave it a squart of contact cleaner and operated the key in all positions several times.
at least its winter and bike is off the road for now
craig


Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 15:32
Originally posted by melonman melonman wrote:


WHY OH WHY IS IT THERE ?????

Because it's a Guzzi.
Form over function every time. LOL


-------------
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 15:45
LOL
spot on brian
If your gonna break down
Look good whilst doing it


Posted By: Tris
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2019 at 07:17
Originally posted by melonman melonman wrote:

thanks for all the replies.
i have had the speed sensor out of its fork mount today and there is a small gap at the bottom of the plastic boot not sure if its enough to cause a problem it does not look damaged the rest of it is fine but need to remove tank and check plug end......
craig
Like this Craig?



When I performed surgery on the dead un' I found rust on the inside.




-------------
2017 V9 Roamer
2005 Breva 1100 - sold
1994 California - sold


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2019 at 09:11
have you just took a photo of my sensor ?
thats exactly like mine.
is that gap meant to be there ?
craig


Posted By: Tris
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2019 at 10:04
Originally posted by melonman melonman wrote:

have you just took a photo of my sensor ?
thats exactly like mine.
is that gap meant to be there ?
craig

I don't think so!

In the past have you had any weird jumping about of the speedo and/or a ridiculously high (150MPH in my case) recorded in the dash for the max speed

Mine did that, and I suspect that it was just a bit of water shorting things out intermittently before the full blown melt down!


-------------
2017 V9 Roamer
2005 Breva 1100 - sold
1994 California - sold


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2019 at 10:31
not had anything like that.
just after a downpour the clocks started been erratic,assumed it was water in the clocks,scorpio have since confirmed there is no water damage or evidence of moissture in the clocks.over a few weeks the clocks/electrics went from worse to better as in nothing on dash and bike no start to all functioning correctly and bike running sweet as , with 1 exception .
ignition in off position and the breva logo on the lcd shows momentarily every 10-15 seconds and the needles move slightly at the same time everything else functions all lights brakes horn etc.
i now have to get the clocks back and start eliminating
oh joy
craig


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2019 at 10:46
hi
can anybody direct me to the frame earth from the ecu.
just curious to have a visual on it before i get stuck in
craig


Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2019 at 11:49
It's a short wire so very close to the ECU. Can't remember exactly where.


-------------
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.


Posted By: Tris
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2019 at 11:53
Originally posted by melonman melonman wrote:

not had anything like that.
.....ignition in off position and the breva logo on the lcd shows momentarily every 10-15 seconds and the needles move slightly at the same time everything else functions all lights brakes horn etc.....

Is this a typo Craig? 

If ignition switch is off and the dash twitches and the lights, horn etc. work I'd guess shorted ignition switch

The good thing once you get the clocks back and you if still suspect the speed sensor, is that once you unplug it normal service should be returned

Tris



-------------
2017 V9 Roamer
2005 Breva 1100 - sold
1994 California - sold


Posted By: Tris
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2019 at 11:55
Originally posted by Brian UK Brian UK wrote:

It's a short wire so very close to the ECU. Can't remember exactly where.


and IIRC its green with a ring terminal on the end and actually screws to the ECU - but don't quote me on that


-------------
2017 V9 Roamer
2005 Breva 1100 - sold
1994 California - sold


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2019 at 12:20
hi tris
NOT A TYPO
ignition on all works as it should.
ignition off imobiliser light flashes as normal
but Breva logo flashes on lcd and needles twitch every 15 seconds approx.
this why i am now leanining towards ignition.just not sure how easy it is to strip out and open up or what i may find in there.
i assume i can take the bottom plastic cover off to get access before i strip it out ?
craig


Posted By: Tris
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2019 at 12:35
Got to be a short in the switch

Best I can find re getting it apart is this https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=94262.0" rel="nofollow - https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=94262.0

If you can't get it off just now, you might be able to unplug it and probe the connections to see if any are conducting when they shouldn't be

If you don't have it the pin outs for the dash and ECU are in here 

 http://www.guzzitek.org/gb/ma_us_uk/1100/Breva1100_Didacticiel(GB).pdf

(hyperlink doesn't want to work for some reason, so you'll have to cut and paste)


Good Luck though
 




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2017 V9 Roamer
2005 Breva 1100 - sold
1994 California - sold


Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2019 at 13:45
http://www.guzzitek.org/gb/ma_us_uk/1100/Breva1100_Didacticiel%28GB%29.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.guzzitek.org/gb/ma_us_uk/1100/Breva1100_Didacticiel(GB).pdf

-------------
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2019 at 13:51
Thanks Tris
Thatgives me some idea what im looking at
Craig


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2019 at 13:52
Thanks for the link Brian
Glad you guys are here


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2019 at 16:03
got my clocks back from scorpio electronics today.
Mark had bench tested them twice but found no issues with them.
there was no sign of water ingress at all and the bench tests showed all functions were working correctly.
Mark has put a water repellant coat on the board just to future proof them.i now at least have peace of mind that the clocks are good so now need to check other areas earths etc that could cause this issue.
The service mark offers is excellent,he is easy to deal with and his prices are fair i would happily reccomend him to anyone with an electronics issue.
i think 1st call is the earth to frame at the ecu.
then onto the ignition barrel.
it was nice to hear the bike running again it fired 1st press of the button and idled perfect no issues until i turn it off then all manner of things start again.
GUZZI so much character !!!!


Posted By: Mike H
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2019 at 20:35
Well that was completely unexpected. Piddle.

So is loom wiring then?



-------------
"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2019 at 11:39
Yeah
Not sure if i am dissapointed its not the clocks or not.
The saga continues


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2019 at 16:54
Just noticed something regarding my clock saga that I stupidly missed before or did not give a thought.
When I connect my battery ,my ignition off keys out
My clocks sweep several times and when they settle the digital dash asks for user code.ignition on clocks sweep bike starts and runs perfect.turn ignition off dash stays on with ecu disconnect showing and hazard lights flashing
So I have power to the clocks when there should be none clock have been checked and all ok so I have been looking for other issues that may of caused this problem.
Now the bit i missed.
I bought a set of clocks off a 1200 sport my mistake 1200 has abs and mine does not.When I plugged the clocks in they lit up but did not sweep and bike would not start.informed by forum members that clocks would be looking for different outputs and signals.ok my error.but the 1200 clocks only came on with ignition on and went off when ignition was turned off and no power to the dash when ignition is off and keys out just like a proper bike.I am now wondering did the guy who checked my clocks miss something.
Sorry for long winded post
Any views/thoughts
Thanks craig


Posted By: stu
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2019 at 21:26
I don't know but...

The used clocks from what I gather are programmed to a set of keys. Your key would not work with this dash, in that they wouldn't control the immobiliser, only mechanical switching of power. Possibly needing two keys to reprogram and possibly would show ABS fault as none ABS.

However, on and off as normal via mechanical action of key on off power function. Some power remains to the dash (immobiliser indicator flashing as Alarm (optional via dash menu).

Repaired clocks may have been "factory" wiped or reset and require the user to set a code, as in a new bike". Possibly meaning that the dash may remain on and hazards flash as a reminder to set user code. But this I don't know as fact just a thought.

There doesn't seem to be any info in the USE-Maintenance Book.

Those are my thoughts :) 


-------------
Breva 1100 ABS 2006
E-Plus 20 Inch Folding Electric Bike 2018 :p
Royal Enfield Himalayan ABS 2019


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2019 at 21:52
Thanks stu
My original clocks that i had checked over/repaired have my stored user code
In them when it shows on the dash as insert user code i can just insert my
Key and the dash works fine or i can insert my user code and it works fine so all that works as should.the 2nd hand clocks which i have no code for but could get cloned with my code work as they should as in key off dash off no hazards flashing key on dash lights up but obviously cannot read my key
Craig


Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2019 at 22:09
The dash is always powered even when the ignition is off. Otherwise the clock would lose the time.

Equally I'm sure I remember,
Battery disconnected, keys in my pocket. Connect battery and you hear a buzz from the dash. I think the dials do a sweep too, but that's all. Will check that in the morning when I can see what I'm doing.


-------------
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.


Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2019 at 10:19
Right, having just tested it I can confirm that on reconnecting the battery (key not in ignition) you hear a buzz from the dash then shortly after all the clocks do a self test sweep. But no lights come on.
This is the normal situation.


-------------
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.


Posted By: theone&onlymin
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2019 at 12:44
Same here. I replaced my clocks recently.  Connected up buzz, sweep no lights. Mark had cloned my replacement clock from my original one so no issue with key codes

You may have seen my photo of inverted readings. Stelvio ran weird when this happened as well. 500 miles into my replacement dash and all is good so it is. 
Off to Wales next weekend for Welsh National Rally; so a bit of back road strafing will give it a real life test instead of commuting test.

Cheers
Min


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2019 at 14:35
Thanks for replies
My clocks on reconnect do a sweep loads of lights brev a logo on LCD then stop and ask for key code.I can then either use my key or key code to start the bike.When I turn it of it all goes a bit stupid.LCD stays on and hazards flash.on the 1200 clocks on reconnect the clocks do the same as yours.I am thinking of getting the 1200s cloned but not sure if that will help.1200 clocks abs and mine none.

Thanks craig


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2019 at 17:53
I would of thought if my ecu etc was sending my clocks weird then the same would happen with the 1200 clocks.but the 1200 clocks turn on and off with the ignition as they should unlike mine.do I assume the ignition is not the issue ?
The speed sensor which can cause problems has been unplugged no change.with my clocks the hazard lights flash when ignition goes off and can't be turned off with the button but with ignition off before any start-up hazards don't work .when bike is running hazards work as normal i assume hazards go through dash ?
Hope that all makes sense.
The guy who did the clocks found no issues at all


Posted By: stu
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2019 at 20:44
There are several product numbers for Breva/Norge/Sport Dashboard Clocks. These may cater for market locations and various fuelings/Maps of each model, 1100, 1200, 8V etc...

ABS was not Active on early models which would imply that the function was available within the Dashboard. Activating will be required, don't know how. Possibly the same way Lambda can be deactivated.

So my thinking ignorantly is, the dash should function normally as I would expect all connections to be the same.

There is a physical difference to the back of later model dashboards in the form of an extra mould to the right of the centre bulge. Don't know it's function.

All that aside your original dash should work. To a fashion. Try running through the menu prior to starting the engine and run through the key programming and check faults.

Exclamation It's confusing Confused


-------------
Breva 1100 ABS 2006
E-Plus 20 Inch Folding Electric Bike 2018 :p
Royal Enfield Himalayan ABS 2019


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2019 at 21:36
Hi
Thanks again for replies.
Stu
My original clocks do work in a fashion
When the ignition is turned on clocks sweep more than once all check lights actuate and work and the bike starts 1st time.i have put over a 1000 miles on the bike since things went weird.but when i turn ignition off the lcd stays on.
I have wired a rocker switch into a fuse so i can shut down the power without having to pull a fuse or disconnect the battery.not sure why the 1200 clocks dont work the plug is the same and they light up but nothing more i have tried opening menu but nothing seems to work.not sure why abs would stop the full dash from working.
Craig


Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2019 at 22:16
I believe your Breva has different control switching to the Norge/1200S. Equally the heated grips control is also different. This alone could make the two not interchangeable. Then you have the ABS feature, not on yours.

Are you sure the ignition switch is really turning everything off?


-------------
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2019 at 22:26
Hi brian
If i am honest i am not sure regarding the ignition.
When ignition is off i have 2 lives i assume dash and hazards maybe.i have taken the cap off the bottom of the ignition to reveal the white plastic disk with solders on but worried about going any further.on the 1200 clocks the ignition switches power on and off as it should
Craig


Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2019 at 08:00
The dash is powered on pins 11, 21 & 22 direct from the battery via the main fuse at all times. It is not powered from the ignition switch with the ignition off.

The only difference I can see between the Breva and 1200S dash wiring is that the latter has a diagnostics port on pin 15.
There is also a can bus connection to the ECU and it's possible that the ECU won't recognise the 1200S dash.

In both cases the switched 12v is to pin 1. If the 1200 dash is switching off normally and your Breva one is not then the fault must lie in the dash somehow.


-------------
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2019 at 08:39
That was my uneducated thought brian.
So maybe power is coming into the dash correctly but then getting shorted somehow.i have no reason to doubt the guy who did the clocks but everything points to that being the issue.if only i could find a set of breva 1100 clocks to try.
The bike runs perfect as is but will the issue deterioate ?
Thanks craig


Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2019 at 09:06
Impossible to say if it will deteriorate, but probably not.

Have you had condensation inside at any time? That can cause problems on the PCB inside, and cause tracking between conductors even after drying out.

The other option, if possible, would be to try your dash on another Breva.


-------------
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2019 at 12:42
Yes Brian
Had condensation inside clocks.
I checked for any ecu dash errors before starting bike earlier.No ecu errors but 06 dash error stored .
Weird thing is as I was looking at it the x turned to a o then back again several times.No idea what that means
Craig


Posted By: stu
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2019 at 16:44
06 is Air Temp Sensor. Don't know why X / O flashes!

Are any Pins bent?

My Breva is an 06 ABS version. I'd be happy to try out your clocks and vice versa. I'm Cheadle Staffordshire. If that helps.


-------------
Breva 1100 ABS 2006
E-Plus 20 Inch Folding Electric Bike 2018 :p
Royal Enfield Himalayan ABS 2019


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2019 at 18:00
Hi all pins appear to be spot on.
Fair ride from sunny Hull but i may take you up on it thanks for the offer.
Craig


Posted By: Tris
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2019 at 21:23
I might be able to help MM

In my garage is a set of clocks, currently disassembled that I bought to cannibalize for the LCD to replace the dead one on my non ABS Breva 1100

I don't have the code for them so I couldn't start the bike but they woke up and waved their needles and rainbow lights before I took them apart so should do the same now (LCD wont work as they now have my old LCD in them)

I'll need to reassemble them, but if you wanted to borrow them we should be able to do something

The bad news I probably wont be able to put them back together for a couple of weeks Cry, but the good news is I'm in Gainsborough Smile

Let me know if you need them

Tris




-------------
2017 V9 Roamer
2005 Breva 1100 - sold
1994 California - sold


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2019 at 22:20
Tris
That would be a massive help.
The fact they are from a non abs bike
Might make all the difference.
In your own time there is no rush
This has been ongoing for a while.
Is the lcd on them completly dead ?
Thanks craig


Posted By: Tris
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2019 at 07:45
Hi Craig

Its a faulty ribbon cable on my old LCD so may or may not work.

Still they should do enough to eliminate your existing dash as the root cause

For what its worth my money is on a faulty ignition switch or loom somewhere but that can be hellish difficult to find.

Still, I'll get these clocks back together and give you a shout

Tris 


-------------
2017 V9 Roamer
2005 Breva 1100 - sold
1994 California - sold


Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2019 at 08:29
But if a different dash doesn't show the problem when plugged in and the wiring to it is identical, how can it be the ignition switch?


-------------
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2019 at 13:18
Thankyou so much Tris.
As you say at least this should prove or disprove my existing dash as the issue.until i recalled plugging in the 1200 dash and seeing the ignition work as it should i would of agreed 100% with you that power was leaking to the dash with ignition off.this is why trying a non abs set of clocks is so important for me
Comparing apples with apples so to speak.once tested i may know were to look next or at least stop looking at certain things for the fault.
Thanks again for all replies
Much appreciated
Craig


Posted By: stu
Date Posted: 03 May 2019 at 10:21
This puzzle has been playing on my mind. Although I do understand that a lot of what follows has already been explained by other members, it just needs to click.

Your bike a Breva 1100 none ABS with a fault visualised by the dashboard and through the dashboard. Needles erratic, hazards flashing.

Replacement Dash/Clocks 1200 ABS

Ignition switch works with your key but all the ignition switch does is creates the contacts, a switch. The 1200 ABS Dash powers up (switched on) but the needles don't sweep and the LCD is completely blank, void of any graphic. Is the LCD faulty on the 1200 ABS dash? The needles not sweeping is an indication of a missing or faulty immobiliser circuit. Such as a key without a transponder linked to that dash.

From what I gather, if the key transponder is not as expected or the receiver or aerial is faulty, the needles do not sweep but the LCD should display Enter Code. The code being the USER code. The user code is required to enter the menu system. The service code will not function prior to the user code or correct key and transponder. This means that a used Dashboard without a user code or correct key and transponder is as mentioned, useless, without being "cloned". It must have the correct key transponder to operate or user code and two new (or your) keys to reprogram a new user code via the service menu. The service menu requiring a know user code or key to enter.

This means that the 1200 ABS Dash doesn't actually "boot" up because it hasn't got the key transponder and no user code entered and thus when turned off won't malfunction. It just switches on and off. Still not sure if the LCD actually works.

Your dashboard shouldn't display a USER code when the ignition is switched on, I'm not sure if it does from previous posts. But if the key is original with an unbroken transponder and the immobiliser circuit is ok, then dashboard should just sweep the needles and prepare to start.

If we take the word of the person that looked at the dash then there is nothing wrong.

I'm tending to look at the ignition switch or immobilizer circuit (antenna possibly).

The ignition switch has two battery live wires. 1 for Park then both for ignition on. However, the second positive also splits prior to the key to power the dash, pins 11, 21, 22. The key on powers the dash via pin 1 (Pins on Dash connector). Pins 30 and 40 are the antenna loop.

I would check 11, 21 and 22 with a volt meter for 12 volts (the connector block).

Below are some service codes for fun, not sure what 155173 is or when to input and on what.

MG Breva (1200 Sport) 06 36421
MG Griso 12425
MG Bellagio 21959
MG Breva/Norge 28315
MG 1400 Cali Eldo Audance
MG Griso 8v 12425
MG Stelvio 10695
Moto Guzzi Re-Mapping Password 155173
AP SR 50 45256
AP Tuono 13432
AP SMV Dorsoduro 75O 98789
AP Mana 850 12321
AP Shiver 12398
AP SR 50 (Pure Jet/Ditech) 45256
RSV-4 Tuono V4 12412

At least you have an interesting bike. Big smile


-------------
Breva 1100 ABS 2006
E-Plus 20 Inch Folding Electric Bike 2018 :p
Royal Enfield Himalayan ABS 2019


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 03 May 2019 at 10:46
Most of what you say makes sense stu
The user code is asked for when the ignition is in the off position.
Looking the dash plug how are the pins numbered horizontally or vertical if that makes sense.
How do i check the imobiliser ring ?
Thanks craig


Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 03 May 2019 at 12:13
The list of service codes we have does differ from the above with respect to the Breva.

Breva 850 & 1100 -- 36421 or 36424; With joystick: 28315

1200 Sport -- 36421 - For models with button control, (i.e. like the Griso set-up) --OR-- 28315 - for the 'Joystick' type (like the Norge/Breva 11 etc.).

2007-10 Norge 1200 2V & 2012+ 4V -- 28315

Griso 850 , 1100 & 1200 -- 12425 

Griso 8V -- 12425 

Bellagio -- 21959 

Stelvio -- 10695


-------------
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 03 May 2019 at 13:38
I will try and video what happens from battery disconnected to ignition on and off this may explain things better.
Once i turn the ignition on and start the bike all works and rides as it should.
Thanks craig


Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 03 May 2019 at 14:33
Just to recap, are you getting any fault code reported on your dash? I thought you had mentioned one, but couldn't see it when I just skimmed through this topic.


-------------
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.


Posted By: stu
Date Posted: 03 May 2019 at 15:52
The user code is asked for when the ignition is in the off position.

There is a fault. Either wiring or ignition barrel connections sticking.

Pin 1 appears to have a constant live 12v supply. There are the 4 positives going to the dash, 1 switched and that should be pin 1, from ignition.

Possibly the 3 constant lives have been incorrectly wired with 1 going to pin1. Then when the ignition is switched on all 4 are live as should be - bike runs. When ignition is off the dash remains on but one constant live is now possibly switched and this causes the erratic behaviour.

The fault depends on the bike history.  So possibly look at past repairs.


-------------
Breva 1100 ABS 2006
E-Plus 20 Inch Folding Electric Bike 2018 :p
Royal Enfield Himalayan ABS 2019


Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 03 May 2019 at 17:32
I don't think the wiring is incorrect as the 1200S dash doesn't react until the key is turned. That suggests the various 12v supplies are correct and the leak across is inside the dodgy dash.


-------------
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 03 May 2019 at 19:29
Brian the fault i get is 06
But as i stay on the dash fault screen
The x that indicates the fault flashes between x and o if that makes sense.
Stu until i got caught in a downpour last year the dash was perfect and i put 7000 miles on it last year no issues at all.
Thanks for all the replies and interst.
Craig


Posted By: melonman
Date Posted: 03 May 2019 at 19:46
I have just uploaded 2vids to youtube.
Breva clocks 1 & breva clocks 2
I am rubbish at tech stuff so not sure how it will come out.
Full name Craig Dawson if you want to search by name


Posted By: Mike H
Date Posted: 03 May 2019 at 20:01
OK the first has message "ECU" + a picture of an unplugged connector, presume cos no ABS. The second I can't read.






-------------
"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."



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