Reversing the gear shift pattern |
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Mole
Falcone Joined: 12 Jan 2016 Location: Surrey Status: Offline Points: 31 |
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Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 17:17 |
I’ve had my 1973 Eldorado for about 15 months and have
ridden about 1000 miles on her. I love the bike but I just can’t get on with
the gear change pattern of 1-up, 4-down which is the reverse of the other bikes
I’ve got with left foot change. I have to think about each gear change and
sometimes get it wrong at awkward moments. So I’ve looked at ways of reversing
the pattern on Greg Bender’s site and one method, credited to Ralph Brinkman,
uses a ‘standoff’ to re-align the change linkage once the gear selector lever
has been reversed. It looked fairly simple so I’ve had a go at making something
similar which might be of interest to a few people on here. I bought the components for the linkage off Ebay from a
seller ‘AskTheMechanic’ https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/askthemechanic?_trksid=p2047675.l2563.
I bought a rod link with ball & socket joints (the 125-140mm should be
about right. The actual rod length I ended up with was 100mm, not including the
joints). I also bought a RH thread 6mm rose joint ‘just in case’ which I ended
up using along with one of the ball & socket joints. The reason for this is
that the centre line of the ball & socket joint protrudes about twice as
far as the rose joint and didn’t line up as well when the new linkage was fitted
to the gear selector lever. I’ve drawn a sketch of a couple of items that I made on my
little Hobbymat lathe from an old piece of steel bar about 12mm diameter. Basically
there is the ‘standoff’ which is bolted rigidly onto the gear change lever, and
an adaptor which attaches the rose joint to the gear selector lever at the back
of the gearbox. When the gear selector is turned through 180 deg to reverse
it, the distance between the tab on the footpedal lever and the centre of the
hole in the selector lever is about 50mm. 15mm of this is taken up by the ball
joint, so the length of the standoff is 35mm. It isn’t critical as the joints
take up slight misalignments. The important part is to fit the standoff and
adaptor very snugly into the holes where the original clevis pins fitted. These
are 6.5mm diameter, so plain shoulders 5mm wide need to be machined to fit. The
standoff is drilled and tapped M6 to take the ball & socket joint, and has
an M6 thread to hold it tight against the footpedal gear lever. File a couple
of flats on the main section to take a spanner so everything can be tightened
easily in situ. The adaptor has a 6.5mm diam x 5mm shoulder, plus M6 thread
to fit in the gear selector lever. The middle section is about 5mm wide, with
flats for a spanner and is there to tighten onto. The other end of the adaptor
has a plain 6mm diam x 9mm section to fit in the rose joint and an M6 thread. It’s all easy to fit into place and can be returned to the original cranked rod-and-clevis linkage if necessary. Time will tell how robust the new linkage turns out to be – there’s a fair amount of leverage against the standoff which is passed through the 6.5mm shoulder so that’s a potential weak point if the gear pedal is stomped on. If it turns out to be weak here I think I’d try enlarging the hole in the footpedal to 8 or 9mm and making a new standoff to suit. Or getting a new ‘tab’ welded to the shaft to suit the position of the reversed selector lever but that means a bit of b*ggering about. I’ll report back at some point on how it’s working out. (Apologies for the upside down pic - I can't figure out how to reverse it on here) Edited by Mole - 20 Apr 2021 at 17:22 |
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Dave P.
Senior Member Joined: 12 Jan 2015 Location: Northants Status: Offline Points: 5573 |
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There you go. I did exactly the same to my 850GT but had the stand off welded in place. Well not exactly the same..... mine was up for up and down for down on the right hand side and I changed it to the traditional British up for down and down for up so it is the same as my RE Bullet and my V7 Special which I changed from left foot to right foot change. Edited by Dave P. - 20 Apr 2021 at 19:01 |
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TO LIVE OUTSIDE THE LAW YOU MUST BE HONEST.
1971 V7 Special. 1972 850GT. 1970 T120 Bonnie. 2009 500 Bullet. |
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jmee54
Senior Member Joined: 28 Nov 2014 Location: Cornwall Status: Offline Points: 1469 |
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I know some bikes had RH gear change and some left, but not that some had reverse gear change pattern. Why? My Eldorado was normal 1 down 4 up and I believe my Ambassador (not ridden yet and can't remember) is the same. Mine are both US imports, does that make a difference? Both police bikes too. A daft state of affairs if you ask me!
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Dave P.
Senior Member Joined: 12 Jan 2015 Location: Northants Status: Offline Points: 5573 |
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John, I haven't heard of a four speed box which I presume your Ambo still has having anything but the one up three down pattern. My 850 GT surprised me when I bought it having a "Triumphesque" up for up down for down pattern without being altered via the linkage.Either it had a reverse selector drum or the box had come from a later Tonti 850.The 850GT hand book shows one up and four down as the STD setup.Page 28 FIG 10
https://www.thisoldtractor.com/mg_manuals/riders_handbook_850gt.pdf Edited by Dave P. - 20 Apr 2021 at 21:15 |
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TO LIVE OUTSIDE THE LAW YOU MUST BE HONEST.
1971 V7 Special. 1972 850GT. 1970 T120 Bonnie. 2009 500 Bullet. |
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jmee54
Senior Member Joined: 28 Nov 2014 Location: Cornwall Status: Offline Points: 1469 |
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You have filled me full of dread now! I will be going the wrong way all the time if it is reversed. It will be a while before I can find out as I am building an extension to my partner's glass work shop, so my new super duper bike workshop will be filled with glass paraphernalia for a good while and my Ambassador will remain silent.
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Glawster
Senior Member Joined: 14 Sep 2015 Location: Cheltenham Status: Offline Points: 896 |
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When did Guzzi actually move to left shift 1 down 4 up? As far as I'm aware, all V7 Sports are right shift 1 up 4 down. This did cause me a few problems in the early days - changing "up" while accelerating from 3rd to 4th while banked over, but actually getting 2nd is a bit disconcerting, particularly as the drive train has no shock absorber. A lesson learnt though!Now, 3 of my 4 bikes have this gearshift pattern, so I've adapted to it.
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1970 Guzzi V7 Ambassador
1955 Guzzi Falcone Sport 2021 BMW R1250R 1998 Cagiva Gran Canyon |
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-HJB-
Senior Member Joined: 19 Apr 2015 Location: Warwickshire Status: Offline Points: 435 |
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That’s an interesting read, thanks for sharing. I went through the same thought process with my V7 Sport when I first bought it, particularly after the occasional, down instead of up, seat biting moment! I think in the time I was looking into how to switch it I also got used to it. I’ve also since sold my LM and will probably sell my my left shift Triumph so the V7 and the Norton will both be right shifters so that will become the norm for me. It is true that shifting down when you’re at 5000+ rpm does focus the mind somewhat!
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Paul.
'72 V7 Sport, '79 Le Mans 2 - Sold, a couple of 60s Brit bikes and a general love of interesting old bikes & cars! |
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Dave P.
Senior Member Joined: 12 Jan 2015 Location: Northants Status: Offline Points: 5573 |
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I don't know when the left shift became standard but for some time both left and right options were available. When you finish your Ambo John you can simply choose which shift pattern you prefer and assemble accordingly.
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TO LIVE OUTSIDE THE LAW YOU MUST BE HONEST.
1971 V7 Special. 1972 850GT. 1970 T120 Bonnie. 2009 500 Bullet. |
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jmee54
Senior Member Joined: 28 Nov 2014 Location: Cornwall Status: Offline Points: 1469 |
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I have a vague recollection that it works "correctly" but my rebuild came to a grinding halt some two years ago. My new workshop was supposed to kick start its revival and my Convert's recommission. Unfortunately my plans have been scuppered by SWMBO!
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Amboman
Senior Member Joined: 05 Dec 2015 Location: Maryland, USA Status: Offline Points: 383 |
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Loops with footboards have a "normal" shift pattern by virtue of the linkage, police departments wanted all of their bikes to shift the same way.
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Charlie
'69 Ambassador,'71 Ambassador,'73 Eldorado,'75 Eldorado police,'76 Convert,'77 Morini 3 1/2 Strada,'81 Ducati 500SL Pantah http://www.AntietamClassicCycle.com |
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Dave P.
Senior Member Joined: 12 Jan 2015 Location: Northants Status: Offline Points: 5573 |
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TO LIVE OUTSIDE THE LAW YOU MUST BE HONEST.
1971 V7 Special. 1972 850GT. 1970 T120 Bonnie. 2009 500 Bullet. |
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Doc.
Senior Member Joined: 17 Sep 2015 Location: South Bucks Status: Offline Points: 639 |
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Well, turning the Bike upside down is a pretty extreme way to remedy the issue! I went the opposite way on my Stelvio (as I do on all my Bikes), and made a Linkage Mechanism to reverse the standard Pattern, to make it 1-Up ~ 5-Down.
I much prefer it, for the same reason most Race Bikes have it like that. You never change down a Gear while cranked hard over in a bend/corner, but you will often need to change up. You can't get your Boot under the Gear Lever if it's right down close to the Road, so being able to change up by pressing down is much better. More positive too, it doesn't matter too much if you miss a Down-change, but we all know what it's like to miss a full-Throttle Up-change! |
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jmee54
Senior Member Joined: 28 Nov 2014 Location: Cornwall Status: Offline Points: 1469 |
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Thanks Charlie! I thought it was the 1 down and 234 up way, but doubt struck when I read this post. So 3 possible ways, marvelous! No track days for me, so won't be getting my feet squashed!
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Doc.
Senior Member Joined: 17 Sep 2015 Location: South Bucks Status: Offline Points: 639 |
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Not really an issue with the 'Heel-and-Toe' Levers, and they're mounted quite high up anyway, but for all other Types, it's something to consider. |
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