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V50 MK2 Ignition trouble

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George View Drop Down
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    Posted: 18 Sep 2020 at 20:47
Hello to everybody. I've been trying to set the carbs on the bike (which is another story),but have run into another trouble which is loss of spark / no start. I think that the problem may be within the engine stop / run switch. I have noted on a few occasions that when the bike would not start I have slid the start switch a couple of times and the bike has fired into life (normally with quite a big bang from the fuel that will have been pumped in during the none ignition cranks). I have seen that in one of the posts it mentioned about 'removing the ground from the switch' to see if it if the ignition / spark is restored. Could anybody give me some advise the best way of 'removing the ground from the switch'. 
Best Regards - George. 
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Ken-Guzzibear View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken-Guzzibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2020 at 09:13
G'day there are free to download coloured wiring diagrams available which will help you it is also fairly easy to swap the old switches for modern Yamaha ones, which are what newer Guzzis use anyway for wiring diags look up "Greg Bender Guzzi" follow links. You may like to look in the Electrical and tech help sections too
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George View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote George Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2020 at 09:47
Thanks for the info Ken - I'll take a look into the Greg Bender site  and the Electrical tech help sections this morning.
Best Regards - George 
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c13pep View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote c13pep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2020 at 10:51
If I remember rightly shorting out the two white wires going to the righthand handlebar bipasses the stop switch

CHRIS 
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George View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote George Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2020 at 11:34
Hello Chris, Ken and All, just a quick update on progress since looking at the wiring diagram. I disconnected the three pin plug from the wiring loom and found that the switch was working correct.
Subsequently I loosely hooked up a coil that I had previously replaced and to my surprise saw that there was a good spark at the plug, so it appears that the wiring per say is OK.
Yesterday I ran the bike in the garage for quite some time trying to set / tune the carbs and I did note that the coils got very hot to touch. After the not too successful attempt at tuning the carbs the engine was stopped - carbtune removed - and it was at this stage I found that the bike wouldn't restart leading on to the discovery that there was no spark at the plugs. The question is - have I cooked the coils? I am a bit miffed if I have as they were new items. Regards to all - George. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken-Guzzibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2020 at 12:25
is this the V50 that has the ignition boxes? but if it works once all cold suggests something getting too hot
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote George Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2020 at 13:35
Hi Ken, the bike is a V50 MK2 with electronic ignition and has two ignition boxes one either side of the bike at the side panel areas. Just to be clear - regarding the two coils that were in use when I was running the bike yesterday, both coils stopped working when very hot and no spark was evident from the coils several hours later after they had cooled to normal air temp. No spark is evident from those coils today.
The old trial coil I loosely hooked up today, and worked OK, may not have been subject any adverse temperature / abuse.
I bought the failed coils off an e bay supplier at around £17 each and perhaps I have bought cheap - as one post says buy cheap and buy twice! 
I guess I'll go to Gutsibits for some replacement items or do you or anybody have any suggestions where to go for good quality replacements. Best Regards - George
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote c13pep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2020 at 14:32
Were the coils correct for electronic ignition
The manual states that `the coils are purposely placed in well ventilated positions to allow for heat dissipation` ie. they are in the air flow which in my case involves running a fan in front of the bike if I need to keep the engine running for a good length of time. My 1150RT was even worse with glowing exhausts if run while stood for even a short length of time

CHRIS


Edited by c13pep - 19 Sep 2020 at 14:41
you can`t have any fun in a straight line

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George View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote George Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2020 at 15:05
Hello Chris and thanks for the reply / comments. A closer look at the two coils shows that they both have severe deep cracks around the central mounting bar and one of the coils actually appears to have its white end cap being pushed out of its black surrounding body. To be honest I can't state the exact spec of the coil - only that it's similar / appears to be the same as to one that had been previously fitted to the bike (the coils have either the letters  ai or di in a square white background). Anyhow I'll have to replace them and any suggested supplier would be welcome although I feel that Gutsibits will be a good reliable shop to go to. If I do any further garage runs I'll sort a fan out. Any further comments much appreciated.
Best Regards - George.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken-Guzzibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2020 at 17:18
Feked are decent too ...... just get correct coil rating for the bike on big blocks it is 3 ohmn 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote George Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2020 at 17:58
Thanks for the info Ken - I'll take a look at their website and make some enquiries around on Monday. 
Best Regards - George. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2020 at 18:10
You have to remember that running the bike while stationalry, you get no cooling air to the coils, and of course the engine will get hotter than normal for the same reason.
Just looked at the workshop manual for the V50 II, to see what coil resistance is specified. The book helpfully says - Ignition coils - 2. LOL

But do you know the resistance of the coils you had? If they were lower than spec (whatever that is) then they would get very hot, and probably not last long.

I would go for 5 ohm coils.
Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote c13pep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2020 at 18:15
[QUOTE=Brian UK]
Just looked at the workshop manual for the V50 II, to see what coil resistance is specified. The book helpfully says - Ignition coils - 2. LOL

Ever the optimist I don`t know what you expectedLOLLOLLOL

CHRIS



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken-Guzzibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2020 at 20:09
big blocks are 3 ohmn
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George View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote George Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2020 at 21:17
Hi to All - I decided to go to Gutsibits for the coils who will know the specs required of the various bits of kit. I really think that the coils I previously bought were substandard and as mentioned before 'buy cheap buy twice'. I'll just have to put this one down to experience. 
Best  Regards - George.
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