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V65 Florida Motoplat

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paulbricey View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 Jul 2022 at 12:04
So finally dragged my restored Florida out the garage for 'first start' attempt.....it's taken a while to source a replacement tank (original was like a pepper pot) and get it sprayed up.



As sod's law would accurately predict, I'd only checked the ignition was working on the right-hand side using plug against the cylinder & since it was fine didn't bother the left-hand side (plus not much room that side with all the boxes & gubbins in the garage)....anyone like to guess what wasn't running when I tried to start it Wink

Original configuration, the RHS sparks and runs fine, left hand side no spark (fuel is fine).
If I switch the LT coil wires, left hand side sparks and runs fine, RHS doesnt run (no spark)
If I switch the Motoplat amplifiers, neither side runs or sparks

I'm just searching for my more sensitive digital ohmeter to compare readings each side of the pick up & amplifier but here's the question/understanding/experience I need (please):

It seems to me that the LHS pick up unit AND the LHS amplifier must have BOTH failed... because the 'known good' signal from the RHS pick up unit won't give a spark through the LHS amplifier AND the 'unknown good/bad' signal from the LHS pick up won't give a spark through the 'known good' RHS amplifier.....and both coils/HT leads/plugs are working fine.

Is it common for these components to fail in tandem & if it is then presume I'll find resistance has gone to zero or infinity on one or both these components ???????

Am I risking blowing out the working units by switching them to just test ????

I know I could buy 2nd hand (even new amplifiers at £140 a pop) bits & I know Dynatech is only an option if I restore the advance weights config (& then camshaft end variants blah de blah); so is Elektonik Sachse a good (costly I know) way to upgrade away from motoplat (Silent Hektik & the ignitech stuff look bit complex) ????

I'd post the Motoplat Florida ignition wiring section but I've (again) exceeded picture store capacity with first pic  Cry

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Brian UK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2022 at 13:00
Don't know if this would be any help.

But it seems difficult to find information about the type used on Guzzi models.

I have the bits from when I had a Spada III, the ignition had been replaced with the Rita system.

The plate with the pickups won't be physically the same as yours, but both my coils measure just under 100 ohms. I also have two ignition modules, but again don't know if they are the same.
I also had 2 coils but found one was dud. Maybe that was why a past owner changed the system.

The number on the module is 9635103 12v 49.
The number on the pickup plate is 9640700 and there is 49 on the other side.
Brian.

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paulbricey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulbricey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2022 at 14:13
Thanks Brian, I'm also showing 96 ohms on each pick up coil; so checking wiring to amplifiers for problems there.... 

The amplifiers themselves are giving large difference in resistance between input signal wires and earth, maybe explains that one of those is likely dead.

Not sure the meaning to the numbers (in relation to application) - my amplifiers are 9635105 12V 10 & 9635105 12V 27...I need to remove plate to check that

It's one of those 'bite the bullet' now and replace with 'complete new' system alternative; or start down the 'replacing bits & hoping' stages (including new & 50% cheaper GuangDong option for amplifiers - wondering how they re-engineered the advance curves in firmware Ermm) in the project. But the pick-up is the elephant in the engine area given there is no alternative 'newly engineered/made' equivalent, and nutjob prices for clapped out looking ones on ebay.....my thoughts are trending towards Elektronik Sachse solution Geek
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andyb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2022 at 21:41
You may find something made by Ignitech.   They are a Czech company so you will have to contact them by email.  I sell a lot of their ignition systems for Rotax engines but do not sell their motorbike parts so I do not know if they will cover your bike - their parts are good quality and sensibly priced.   Search ignitech.cz
Good luck
Andy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2022 at 22:37
I would certainly check how clean those little connectors are from the pickups.
Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulbricey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2022 at 12:32
Good inputs & thanks.....sadly the pick up rotor is corroded onto the end of the camshaft, so I'm going to remove front wheel etc & weld a nut on the rotor so I can pull on it (the rotor sensor tip broke with almost no yanking & there's a 5cm interference overlap that's holding it fast) Cry


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paulbricey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulbricey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2022 at 16:19
After a few diversions (holidays, boiler & plastic pipe failure/flood, fixing multiple bust family cars, relaid drive, tile porch & repaint front of house....) I finally got around to the dreaded pick up rotor - just sharing in case anyone else ends up in same problem..!

Ignition rotor is a 'slip fit' and bolted onto end of camshaft but like the rest of bike is rusted to hell & mole wrench/pliers/heat/pentrating oil/etc wouldn't touch it...so had to use the 'welded nut technique'.  Fixed a suitable nut (same size/thread as slider-puller end) by holding it on with another nut & a carriage bolt that fitted the camshaft end thread. 

Despite some initial difficulty getting it to Arc/spark (& an 'is it actually iron/steel or alloy moment' - oil on shaft caught fire Wink), and fiddling around to get the arc in the right place between nut & rotor arm with all the other metal bits close by, it welded OK enough to get the carefully selected nut fixed and then the puller into nut....took a lot of pulls !!



Next step to replace oil seal & decide what ignition to use (& if I can even get replacement rotor arm for reasonable money)


Edited by paulbricey - 05 Aug 2022 at 20:08
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paulbricey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulbricey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2022 at 20:06
Hmmm......so DynaTek & Ignitech & almost all except Elektronik Sachse options won't work because the magnet bobbin won't sit right on cam - not keen on the end of alternator option (or price) for Silent Hektik.

Since I already (just before I broke the end of the rotor Embarrassed) ordered a replacement used CDI unit for £50 delivered & a used sensor plate from TLM €33 delivered; I've just ordered another Rotor arm (long one) for €66 delivered from Italy.

Hopefully there are enough working bits to get this sorted now (before summer ends).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote c13pep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2022 at 08:35
Which will come first summer’s end or bankruptcy ConfusedConfusedConfused

CHRIS 
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paulbricey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulbricey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2022 at 19:45
Good question .... TBH it would have been cheaper to buy a running one than buying a complete wreck and restoring, but I guess that's the fun part of it all, getting dead bikes back on the road at any cost.

For sure it would be hard to build a business restoring these bikes versus breaking the bits and selling them as parts  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote huub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2022 at 08:31
the sachse ignition is a nice piece of kit , but their after sales service is not the best. 
the sachse ignition on my 750 NTX failed ( misfire at high temperatures, a known defect with these ) and apparently they are not repairable
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paulbricey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulbricey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2022 at 09:53
Thanks for that interesting info Thumbs Up....then maybe I'll try and stay original set up (at least until I run out of bits/options/money/energy)...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote guzzwiz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2022 at 10:35

Might be a replacement for the Motoplat units.

Rudi

presently a modified 1000G5 and a V7classic; (V50PA sold)
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paulbricey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulbricey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2022 at 13:49
Thanks, yes there are lots of options for ignition boxes (once you get a 'rocking horse sh*t ' replacement ignition rotor).  Cheap ones just up road from me as well Smile



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Brian UK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2022 at 14:29
I'll bet the "man in the shed" could make one.
Brian.

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