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Wiring kill switch question.

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ReggieV View Drop Down
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    Posted: 08 Oct 2018 at 14:59
Hello all, I'm putting an aftermarket Domino start/ kill switch on my 1970s Guzzi.
 
My question is, on the run / kill switch instead of one wire in and one wire out as I expected, there are four wires and four points where the wires are soldered.
The two top terminals are linked at the connection pin where it goes into the electrical connector block and so in effect have continuity.
The third wire is marked "N"  and has continuity with the top terminals with the kill switch live, but not when ignition is killed
The fourth wire is marked "ignition lock" and the wiring instructions state that this wire goes to the "de-energised terminal with ignition switched on,"  and has continuity with the top terminals with the kill switch live, but not when ignition is killed
 
What I intend to do is cut the wire that goes to the "de-energised terminal with ign on" and just use the third wire to complete the ignition circuit on the kill switch.
 
But can anybody tell me what a "de-energised terminal with ignition switched on" is please. Is it for bikes with ECUs ??
 
I hope that makes sense.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 2018 at 15:05
Could just be the parking light feed. Ignition off, key removed when energised. Ignition on,parking lights off.    Just a guess.
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ReggieV View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ReggieV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 2018 at 21:16
DaveP wrote; "Could just be the parking light feed. Ignition off, key removed when energised. Ignition on,parking lights off. "
Hi Dave,it's a possibility. I can't think of anything else or better.
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Mike H View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 22:14
Did you mean the 4th wire connects to the top pair when in the 'off' / 'stop' position?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ReggieV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 22:24
Mike H wrote; "Did you mean the 4th wire connects to the top pair when in the 'off' / 'stop' position?"
 
Yes that is effectively correct. But the switch is made so that the two circuits are independent.
 
1-2
|   |
4  3
 
I've tried to draw a meaningful circuit diagram (above).
1 and 2 are wired independently at the switch, but the 2 wires are joined at the connecting pin and so are (I believe) always live with the ignition on.
3 is marked "N" 
4 is marked "ignition lock" and the wiring instructions state that this wire goes to the "de-energised terminal with ignition switched on," 
 
 


Edited by ReggieV - 12 Oct 2018 at 22:27
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Mike H View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 22:39
OK, well some bikes still have a magneto type ignition, which requires that something be shorted out to stop it. That would be the only way to do it. So the Domino switch is trying to suit both cases by the sounds of it.




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ReggieV View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ReggieV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2018 at 20:34
That would make sense. I hadn't considered something like a magneto. It's 41 years since my bike had one.
 
 
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Mike H View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 22:56
Whatever is the modern equivalent of a battery-less ignition. I do know the ignition switch of such bikes needs a closed contact in the 'off' position to stop it, and, prevent it being started and ridden away by a tealeaf of course.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iansoady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2018 at 10:20
I rather doubt a kill switch would be much of a theft prevention measure.......

When I first had a Norton single in the early 1970s I used to leave it anywhere with the ignition on full advance thinking (a) it wasn't worth anybody's time to nick it and (b) they'd break their ankle trying to start it.

I was proved wrong on both counts.......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2018 at 10:41
I somehow don't think Mike was being totally serious.
Even ignition switches using keys don't work, especially when, as in the first Norton Commandos, you could just wrap some fusewire round the terminals on the back of the switch.
Equally you could also just put your ginger under the steering lock on the top yoke and press it out.
You should have seen the look on the face of the Norton MD (Hugh Palin) when I demonstrated that to him after mine was nicked.

The design of both was changed shortly after.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gianni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2018 at 11:26
Does it have to be ginger or can other root spices like galangal or tumeric be substituted?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 2018 at 15:19
Originally posted by Brian UK Brian UK wrote:

I somehow don't think Mike was being totally serious.

Actually I was, such things do exist. There is a 'breed' of small motorbikes that work this way. Possibly mostly Chinese in origin.



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Mike H View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 2018 at 15:24
Originally posted by iansoady iansoady wrote:

I rather doubt a kill switch would be much of a theft prevention measure.......

Of course not, but the shorted link in the ignition key switch is supposed to. But of course what a thief does is look for the wire it connects to, and cut it.

Big smile

However the Domino switch could work with a magneto, if that's what you've got.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 2018 at 19:22
Originally posted by Mike H Mike H wrote:

Originally posted by Brian UK Brian UK wrote:

I somehow don't think Mike was being totally serious.

Actually I was, such things do exist. There is a 'breed' of small motorbikes that work this way. Possibly mostly Chinese in origin.

Chinese tealeafs then. That's the bit I was talking about.
Brian.

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