Tubed to Tubeless Tyres
Printed From: guzziriders.org - moto guzzi forum
Category: Modifications and Restorations
Forum Name: Modifications
Forum Description: Let us know all about your Guzzi related modifications
URL: http://www.guzziriders.org/forum_posts.asp?TID=4685
Printed Date: 27 Mar 2026 at 02:01
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Topic: Tubed to Tubeless Tyres
Posted By: red leader one
Subject: Tubed to Tubeless Tyres
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2016 at 20:47
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For the past ten years we
have travelled up to Strathpeffer to a cottage, and from there we travel
around Scotland for a fortnight, on one of the trips coming home my
wife had a rear wheel puncture, which completely wrecked the tyre and
inner tube, it wasn't very pleasant to say the least, so I realised then
how dangerous tube tyres can be as you get no warning before the tyre
goes dead flat, so I decided to do something about the situation. We decided to get new wheels built with aluminium rims and new hubs, because the Triumph wheels weigh a ton, so this I what I did to make them tubeless . I cleaned the inside of the rim and stuck silver tape right around the rim on top of the spokes, I then gave it two coats of Hammerite paint, and finally put a coating of Stikflix which is a combination of no nails and silicone, it's used in the building trade extensively, it needs a couple of days to completely go off. Since then we have covered approx 20,000 miles each and have had several sets of tyres fitted to both bikes, there is no signs of any deteriation, and the tyres never loose any air. Since I've done mine there have been lots of others who have copied the system, although I don't claim to be the inventor of it. The bikes were Bonnevilles. |
Replies:
Posted By: Dave P.
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2016 at 00:17
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On greg Benders site there is a topic which deals with this idea.I can't remember the exact procedure but it sounds similar to this..... http://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_tires_-_tubeless_conversion.html ------------- TO LIVE OUTSIDE THE LAW YOU MUST BE HONEST. 1971 V7 Special. 1972 850GT. 1970 T120 Bonnie. 2009 500 Bullet. |
Posted By: jmee54
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2016 at 09:45
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I have read articles on this before and thought about doing it. My Eldo tyres have always lost air at a rate that I find unacceptable. Do you by any chance have pictures of the process, as I would like to give it a go. Do you still use the same tyres? |
Posted By: Dave P.
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2016 at 09:57
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Lots of pictures on Greg's site John. I imagine you would use tubeless tyres,I think that's the point of the exercise.  ------------- TO LIVE OUTSIDE THE LAW YOU MUST BE HONEST. 1971 V7 Special. 1972 850GT. 1970 T120 Bonnie. 2009 500 Bullet. |
Posted By: saultrader
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2016 at 10:14
| I like the idea and would seriously consider the mod but I always thought that spokes jumped up and down, microscopically speaking, and also wonder about the messiness of replacing a broken spoke. Does anyone do this job professionally? |
Posted By: red leader one
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2016 at 11:47
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Apparently the Honda VFR1200X Crosstourer has tubeless spoked spoked wheels. http://www.honda.co.uk/motorcycles/range/adventure/vfr1200x-2016/specifications.html |
Posted By: v7john
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2016 at 20:58
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I've heard of other people having good results with this but, I've never considered doing it myself as I can't see explaining the modification to my insurers going particularly well. ------------- 1972 V7Sport "The Racing Rhino". 1972 V7 700cc "The Fire Bike". 1954? Superalce 1954 BSA M33 (to be sold) Read my blog https://racingrhino.wordpress.com/ |
Posted By: red leader one
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2016 at 00:33
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I wondered about that as well. |
Posted By: jmee54
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2016 at 12:58
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Ok, you do it and it your tyre deflates. I would have thought it would be more controlled than a tubed tyre having a major mishap, wouldn't it and probably noticed before you use your bike? |
Posted By: theone&onlymin
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2016 at 13:18
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See John's link below.... Cheers Min |
Posted By: v7john
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2016 at 19:56
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I would choose tubeless tyres in preference to tubed if the choice were straight-forward. I know of two people who have successfully sealed their spoked wheels. They have neglected to tell their insurers though and that's their choice. They are also aware that the profile of rims for tubed and tubeless tyres are different and taken that into account. I've also seen conversations on the web about going tubeless on some cast wheels which weren't designed for them (Le Mans?) with dire and probably overblown warnings. I have never heard of anyone coming to grief after converting their wheels, only it not working at the first attempt. That would suggest that the risk in making the modification is low and, given the safety benefits of tubeless tyres, the gains higher. Despite all that, I know my insurers would want to be told and also know they would be difficult. ------------- 1972 V7Sport "The Racing Rhino". 1972 V7 700cc "The Fire Bike". 1954? Superalce 1954 BSA M33 (to be sold) Read my blog https://racingrhino.wordpress.com/ |
Posted By: v7john
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2016 at 20:10
I don't know why your link doesn't seem to work. It looks right to me https://adventure-motorcycling.com/2012/02/14/converting-spoked-rims-for-tubeless-tyres/" rel="nofollow - https://adventure-motorcycling.com/2012/02/14/converting-spoked-rims-for-tubeless-tyres/ Interesting stuff. ------------- 1972 V7Sport "The Racing Rhino". 1972 V7 700cc "The Fire Bike". 1954? Superalce 1954 BSA M33 (to be sold) Read my blog https://racingrhino.wordpress.com/ |
theone&onlymin wrote:Posted By: italianmotor
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2016 at 08:53
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I just don't really see what the point of all that effort is on an old Guzzi though. I do understand the principle that a tube deflates quicker than a tubeless setup, but in my experience, and perhaps I have been lucky, the only puncture I have had was 20 years ago and it was pretty slow, and I noticed after a while and pulled over. On an adventure bike riding adventurous terrain or similar fair enough. And as John says, I can't see that the insurers would be happy with me messing about with the tubes/tyrees. And I'm happy enough to take the time (1 minute?) to check the pressures every time I ride, as I can also have a check of the state of the tyres. ------------- Guzzi lover doing my own thing: http://www.italianmotormagazine.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.italianmotormagazine.com |
Posted By: BobV7
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2016 at 10:04
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The problem I have with tyres is checking the gauges are accurate. Over the years I aquired several of the pencil type, all of which when tested gave different readings. I've also had a couple of digital models which worked well on the car but were less useful with the bike because of problems with fitting the on the valve. Finally I bought a dial model with a flexible hose. This worked well up to the point where it wouldn't hold the reading which rendered it useless. I've just ordered another dial type without the hose connector. Still don't know how accurately these things are calibrated and does it really matter that much? Sorry to hijack your post RLO! My position on using tubless tyres on rims made to take tubes is I wouldn't do it. I've always understood that the interior rim profiles are different because of the need to make an air tight seal. ------------- V7 Classic Black and gold was the best. But green & black was nice too. Now blue is in! |
Posted By: jmee54
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2016 at 11:04
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I use a 90 deg. valve stem adaptor as I find impossible to get guages on, but it's a pain to keep it with you when you ride different bikes. |
Posted By: Dave P.
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2016 at 12:47
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All of my bikes have tubed tyres.I have thought of putting "Slime" anti puncture stuff in the tubes but have never got around to it.Anybody have any experience of it? Years ago there was a product called "OKO" a green liquid which I tried.I didn't get a puncture so I don't know how effective it would have been.When I next changed a tyre I could hear rattling from the tube so I cut it open and the "OKO had dried out and formed little dry beads .I never bothered again.I'm still curious about "Slime" though,could be an improvement over 1970's "OKO" chemistry. ------------- TO LIVE OUTSIDE THE LAW YOU MUST BE HONEST. 1971 V7 Special. 1972 850GT. 1970 T120 Bonnie. 2009 500 Bullet. |
Posted By: theone&onlymin
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2016 at 16:25
Just keep it in the bottom of yer man bag. Cheers Min |
Posted By: jmee54
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2016 at 19:51
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Don't have a man bag Min! Perhaps I'll have to buy more, one for each bike. I would like some small ones that I could leave in place as everything that makes checking the pressures a faff, makes me less likely to do it - till my bike's squirming about on bends. I don't think their extra weight would make too much difference on the wheel's ballance, would it? |
Posted By: Normski
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2017 at 16:35
There's another one Ultraseal which was toted around for a while. |
Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2017 at 16:40
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Ultraseal can attack alloy wheels and cause a leak round the rim. Guess how I know. ------------- Brian. Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next. |
Posted By: johnno
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2017 at 17:08
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I once had a valve blow of an inner tube on a Honda cd200 front tyre pure luck I stayed upright full on tank slapper . I can see why people would want to go tubeless but I would not bother ------------- 1100 sport corsa , Honda cb10000r , rider |
Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2017 at 20:49
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I had a front deflate at 70 plus when overtaking a large truck on a dual carriageway. Managed to keep upright until the speed dropped to about 20. Then it flipped. Not sure who had the biggest shock, me or the truck driver having a bike go down right in front of him. First day of a 2 week tour of Scandinavia too, but still in the UK. ------------- Brian. Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next. |
Posted By: Ken-Guzzibear
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2017 at 23:29
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must be lucky in 265,000 miles had 4 punctures only 2 whilst riding the v1000 with tubed tyres as I understand it tubeless have different rims .... but ....as they sat "Taint no big thayng" ------------- The Older i Get, The Better I Was |
Posted By: Doc.
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2017 at 08:33
That's the point of it, it 'fixes' any punctures without you even realising you've had one. I've used it on most of the Bikes I've had over the years, it works, never suffered a deflated Tube/Tyre that's had it in, on or off-road. I recently did the rear Wheel/Tyre on my Stelvio with it, primarily to seal the four leaking Spokes! Makes Tyre changes a bit messy, but a small price to pay for not getting stranded somewhere, at night, in the pi##ing rain, or worse . . . ------------- Doc out! Stelvio/V85/V100 Owners Group on FB https://www.facebook.com/groups/888995181188209/?fref=nf" rel="nofollow - https://www.facebook.com/groups/888995181188209/?fref=nf |
Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2017 at 10:52
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I stopped using it when I had a constant slow "puncture" which turned out to be corrosion on the rim seat caused by the gunge. Tyre fitters hate the stuff. ------------- Brian. Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next. |
Posted By: exsmokingbiker
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2017 at 12:25
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used to sell Ultraseal and never had bad remarks or experiences even used to put some in my tubes and often at tyre change we found sealed punctures in the tube - one thing i have always done is study the tyre size to tube size you will find a tube will fit a lot of different size tyres some a lot bigger etc i always put the tube in at the bottom of the range that way its not stretched thin like a baboon also tubed ans tubless tyre rims are a differnt profile on sealing surfaces so be wary if swaping ------------- For all your engineering- ultrasonic and aquablasting needs see WWW.bike-aquablasting.co.uk |
Posted By: jmee54
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2017 at 13:37
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I am not recommending it and have no experience of it, but there are quite a few posts on sealing Borrani rims and running tubeless tyres, especially on US sites. There are people who have done it for years, even if the wheel profile is different. |
Posted By: Omobono
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2017 at 14:25
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Perhaps I am saying something stupid, but what about sealing the rims with the procedure one prefers and leaving the tube inside the tyre working as usual? Unless I am missing something big, this would give the peace of mind in case of puncture without the insurance company having the possibility to complain in case of accident etc (the tyres remain conventional, not tubeless tyres). If I have said something stupid, please delete remark... O
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Posted By: Doc.
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2017 at 05:39
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You mean using a Tubeless Tyre, but with an Inner-Tube fitted? The only issue I can see with that, is that an Inner- Tube Valve isn't sealed to the Rim, so if you had a puncture (even if the offending article stayed in the tyre and sealed the hole, as it often does), the Tube would deflate via the Valve hole. You could probably seal the Valve to the Rim though, with a Rubber Washer or two.
You could get round that by Painting the Rim's inner surface, a lot of 'modern' Rims are Plated/Painted anyway. Never used a Tyre Fitter personally, not for a Bike Tyre. ------------- Doc out! Stelvio/V85/V100 Owners Group on FB https://www.facebook.com/groups/888995181188209/?fref=nf" rel="nofollow - https://www.facebook.com/groups/888995181188209/?fref=nf |
Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2017 at 15:05
Exactly what I did. ------------- Brian. Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next. |
Posted By: Ianboydsnr
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2017 at 20:26
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I used to run my lemans 2 with tubeless tyres, on the original rims, the only difference in the rims is a slight bead that makes the tyres difficult to run off the rim if pressures are real low, but using the tube rim tubeless is no worse than it would be with a tube, I have mentioned this in the past, and was informed that the great Lino Tonti personally designed the wheels and to go against him, nuns, kittens and everyone else would die, I still used them for many thousands of miles, and figured that as you can't buy tubeless tyres and you shouldn't use tubeless tyres with tubes, that the insurance question is a misnomer, I generally carry a tin of tyreseal, for punctures in tubed tyres the type that blows up the tyre, it's worked a couple of times in the past ten years, then once home, I replace the tube |
Posted By: Mike H
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2017 at 01:52
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Is this Comma Tyre Seal, as opposed to brand name "Tyreseal" (Tyreseal Ltd) which appears to be a puncture prevention 'gloop' type treatment. (?) ------------- "Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday." |
Posted By: Mike H
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2017 at 02:03
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Or, Holt's Tyre Weld... ------------- "Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday." |
Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2017 at 10:40
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There are two basic types surely? The gloop stuff which you put in the tube/tyre which remains there and if a puncture occurs, it hardens in the hole and seals the tyre. The other type is the foam you put into a punctured tyre to inflate it and seal. ------------- Brian. Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next. |
Posted By: Mike H
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2017 at 15:36
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Sorry all it was, I was a bit confused re the actual name cos how he phrases it, interpret as, the emergency roadside repair foam self-inflate squirt it in can type, but when I Googled "tyreseal" I got the other type, and the manufacturer who makes it (Tyreseal Ltd). And that's the only type they seem to make. Just me being pedantic . ------------- "Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday." |
Posted By: guzzipaulv
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2017 at 20:50
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I have a California Vintage and after getting a puncture from a large nail decided to convert to tubeless. First thoroughly clean and dry rim useing solvent, apply industrial grade silicon sealant rtv over spoke nuts, apply gorilla tape or similar over silicone before it is fully set. Fit valve making sure it is tight. Lightly sand inside rim. refit tyre. This method has worked on my Nevada as well. No leaks for three years. Do not jet wash wheels. |
Posted By: iansoady
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2017 at 14:15
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I did something similar to my Hinckley Tiger 955 (alloy rims, spoked wheels) as I'd had a terrifying experience some years previously on a Norton Commando when a huge screw went through the back tyre when I was doing around 60. More by luck than riding skill, I managed to get into a layby without dropping the bike. A following rider reckoned I was taking up both lanes of the dual carriageway as I tried to wrestle it to a halt. After lots of research I ended up using an aircraft fuel tank sealer (Which IIRC was Bostik 2402). I managed to scrounge some from a local company as it was about to go out of date. I did a good 15,000 miles on the tubeless conversion with no problems at all despite many people telling me I was being suicidal. My rationale was that a tube does nothing at all to hold the tyre on the rim when deflated, and that a tubeless tyre is much less likely to suffer catastrophic deflation. Some stuff in this thread: http://www.triumphrat.net/tiger-workshop-archive/46888-what-i-did-on-my-holidays-spoke-sealing.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.triumphrat.net/tiger-workshop-archive/46888-what-i-did-on-my-holidays-spoke-sealing.html I don't think you can see the pics...... ------------- Ian 1964 Norton Electra 1965 BSA/Suzuki 1992 Yamaha SRV250 |
Posted By: Doc.
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2017 at 15:33
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Tubeless Rims are a slightly different shape to Tubed versions, which may mean you don't get the full benefit of Tyre Bead retention at low/zero pressures. What I think is more important however, is the slow deflation rate you get with a Tubeless Tyre, with most punctures. ------------- Doc out! Stelvio/V85/V100 Owners Group on FB https://www.facebook.com/groups/888995181188209/?fref=nf" rel="nofollow - https://www.facebook.com/groups/888995181188209/?fref=nf |
Posted By: iansoady
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2017 at 16:18
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Both true I think. ------------- Ian 1964 Norton Electra 1965 BSA/Suzuki 1992 Yamaha SRV250 |
Posted By: Mike H
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2017 at 17:27
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What I was told is (because I wanted to change to tubeless), can only have a tubeless tyre IF the rim is designed for it, else must use an inner tube. There is also an insurance issue. E.g. Police do an inspection of your vehicle after an accident and find it has tubeless tyres on non-tubeless compatible rims. ------------- "Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday." |
Posted By: iansoady
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2017 at 10:28
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The Tiger I mentioned came with tubeless tyres with tubes in them from new. Tubed tyres just weren't available in the required sizes. With regard to the insurance issue, as I understand it there needs to be some sort of proof that any modification actually contributed to a crash. I'd be interested to hear of any documented instance of this not being the case. ------------- Ian 1964 Norton Electra 1965 BSA/Suzuki 1992 Yamaha SRV250 |
Posted By: BobV7
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2017 at 11:18
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If this was a factory fitting then I don't see how it could be an insurance issue. However, an accident resulting from the owner deviating from the approved factory specification would be an ideal opportunity for an insurer to consider that the modification may have contributed to the accident. And we all know how eager insurers are to pay out. After an expensive puncture I changed the spoked wheels of my V7 to MG cast so I could use tubeless tyres and I've informed my insurer of this as a precaution. Their reply was in the event of an accident they would only replace the wheels with origonal spoked ones. If the wheels had been that damaged I suspect the type of replacement wheel would be the least of my worries.
------------- V7 Classic Black and gold was the best. But green & black was nice too. Now blue is in! |
Posted By: Dodge
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2017 at 11:34
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I use a "track pump" designed for bicycles. Not expensive, accurate gauge, works up to 140psi. And you get some exercise using it! Less than £15 at http://www.wiggle.co.uk/lifeline-essential-track-pump/" rel="nofollow - http://www.wiggle.co.uk/lifeline-essential-track-pump/ |
Posted By: iansoady
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2017 at 13:24
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This thread prompts me to ask whether the standard fitment tyres on V50s are tubed or tubeless? ------------- Ian 1964 Norton Electra 1965 BSA/Suzuki 1992 Yamaha SRV250 |
Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2017 at 17:10
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Standard on a V50 is tubed. However there would be no problem using a tubeless tyre with a tube. ------------- Brian. Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next. |
Posted By: iceni
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2017 at 18:18
| My 750T which apparently has the same frame as the V50, has tubeless tyres and seems fine. |
Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2017 at 22:52
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Same frame but later wheels. Guzzi went over to tubeless rims during the late 80s. ------------- Brian. Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next. |
Posted By: V7Chris
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2017 at 07:54
I did wonder when I saw the picture of your V7 what sort if hybrid you had created! One of the reasons I chose my V7ii Stone was the cast wheels - low maintenance and easier to clean. I have booked a test ride of the V7 iii classic next week. I don't fancy the new Stone as much. Trouble is, that comes with the spoked wheels 😕 where did you obtain your cast wheels from Bob? I think if I choose the black colour, the existing Stone wheels would maybe fit? Maybe the dealer could swap the wheels and tyres if I buy the mkiii. Anyway, all hypothetical at the moment because unless it is streets ahead of the V7 ii, I won't be changing it! |
Posted By: BobV7
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2017 at 08:14
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After having a puncture that cost me half a day and over £130 to get the bike recovered I bit the bullet and ordered the wheels from Corsa Italiana. It was an expensive exercise involving new tyres as well, but an easy job to do only needing the discs swapped over. Sold the old ones to another Guzzi owner who got one hell of a bargin, but at least now I hope to be able to fix a puncture at the road side. ------------- V7 Classic Black and gold was the best. But green & black was nice too. Now blue is in! |
Posted By: V7Chris
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2017 at 21:27
| Bob, I test rode a v7iii special today- it has tubeless spoked rims. Still prefer the cast rims myself though. |
Posted By: swede
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2017 at 18:18
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I am just finishing an o/haul, on my Guzzi Lm 2 and think I may do a little investigating on fitting tubeless tyres. Previously I ran tubeless with tubes and put a shaped washer and 'o' ring on the valve where it protrudes from the rim. This I found, quite by chance, holds the air in the tyre should the tube suddenly deflate and so, stops the air escaping rapidly through the valve hole and avoids a rapid deflation (as long as the object which caused the problem, stayed in the tyre). I did run a spate of punctures at one time and, with all of them, I managed to stop safely as I detected a fault in time. I will still look into 'no tubes' though! Can't wait to get the Guzzi out in the spring, Ive done 154,000 on it so far! ------------- swede in the shed |
Posted By: V7Chris
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2017 at 06:19
It will probably be okay when you have finished running it in then 
|
Posted By: swede
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2017 at 00:21
Yes, just have to keep control of my right hand! I don't intend to ride it as hard as I did, just a pleasure bike now: but Iv'e started out with those good intentions before----- I'm off to the 'old' elephant rally in February, but that will on the Honda. The Guzzi has done it (Nurburgring, Salzburgring and Solla) about 15 times but I'm not taking it on the salted German roads after all my work!------------- swede in the shed |
Posted By: Exmoorbeast
Date Posted: 15 Jan 2018 at 19:39
| Firstly, spoked wheels have a rim tape (instead of sealant or insulating tape )to allow water that has enters the wheel via the spokes to disperse and dry out. In my many years in the motorcycle trade every wheel that we had with insulating/gaff a tape the nipple/spoke end/rim were always rusty. Now if you have sealed this area you will not know if it is corroded , not good. Secondly, I have seen some stupid bodges in my time but never a home made tubeless wheel- do you think Honda & BMW would have gone to the trouble of designing the tubeless spoked wheel when they could have used tape and sealant? Don't do it. |
Posted By: iansoady
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 10:44
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Thank you for the gratuitous insult. ------------- Ian 1964 Norton Electra 1965 BSA/Suzuki 1992 Yamaha SRV250 |
Posted By: Exmoorbeast
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 11:27
| I apologise if you feel insulted but I am only expressing my fear for others safety. I was an Motorcycle MOT inspector for 20 years and have been trained by Honda, BMW, Kawasaki and Triumph. I have also had an experimental racing wheel fail on a customers ZZR1100 only minutes after I had been riding it. If my views are any different from any tyre,wheel or motorcycle manafacturer , then I apologise for being forthright with my opinion. |
Posted By: iansoady
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 12:09
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The term I was objecting to was "stupid bodges" which I took to referring to my spoked wheel conversion. Maybe that's not what you meant. And, with all due respect, a mealy mouthed apology "if I feel insulted" is just as insulting. The wheels I converted were on a Triumph Tiger 955i which had aluminium alloy rims and stainless spokes and nipples so any chance of corrosion was minimal. The sealant I used was aircraft standard used for sealing fuel tanks and was in fact the same as used by a USA workshop which carries out a similar conversion (and charges a significant amount for it). The sealant was approved by the manufacturer and supplier for use on the materials. The modification was perfect for 8 years (including 2 rear tyre changes and one front) until I sold the bike (with of course full information for the next owner). I know that others have done similar conversions and have not heard of any problems. FWIW, I've been riding for 50 years and have experienced several punctures with tubed tyres, some of which have been hair raising. I am also a professionally qualified mechanical engineer but accept I have not worked in the trade - although given the total lack of expertise displayed by the workshop staff at the dealer from which I bought the Tiger, I'm not sure how much of a qualification this is. My objectives were to minimise the risk of sudden catastrophic deflation which is what happens with a tubed tyre when the tube is ripped, which often happens when the tyre is penetrated. The worst that would happen with the sealant would be a slow loss of pressure. I monitored it closely for the first couple of years, then less often when I discovered that the only loss of pressure was from applying the pressure gauge. Some people suggested to me that the tyre was more likely to be separated from the rim if it did lose pressure suddenly. For the life of me, I cannot see how an inner tube can do anything to prevent this so a tubeless conversion cannot be worse than a tubed tyre from this point of view. And as I say is much less likely to suffer this catastrophic deflation in the first place. I would of course not attempt such a mod with the type of rim I have on my Norton or Ariel as they are of completely different construction. And I have never suggested anyone else carry out this mod - merely reporting my own experiences. ------------- Ian 1964 Norton Electra 1965 BSA/Suzuki 1992 Yamaha SRV250 |
Posted By: Exmoorbeast
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 13:00
| I apologise unreservedly , the last thing I wanted to do was upset you, my use of the word stupid was wrong and I have never be called mealy mouthed in all my life, far from it! Whilst you may feel confident in your skills putting the idea into others heads that may not be as competent is my concern. I hope you can see why I have this opinion, I have seen catastrophic failure of so many modified handlebars, forks, frames and wheels that were made , like my comments, with the best intentions. |
Posted By: iansoady
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 13:23
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Apology accepted! Yes, perhaps I may sometimes assume that others have similar experience to myself. And in my youth I'm sure I did some stupid things! Anyway, welcome to the forum. ------------- Ian 1964 Norton Electra 1965 BSA/Suzuki 1992 Yamaha SRV250 |
Posted By: Exmoorbeast
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 13:33
| Thank you! |
Posted By: c13pep
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 14:42
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My local tyre shop told me that tubed tyres are slightly different construction to tubeless ones as are the rims and should not be mixed. They also mentioned that it is the tyre wall that is usually damaged when a puncture occurs,as it deforms too much as the tyre goes down and overheats, unless you can do an instant stop. They have been changing tyres for as long as my bikes been on the planet, so I tend to listen to their advice. Perhaps I`ve been lucky but I`ve always changed the tyre after a puncture which has only been a couple of times(my car is fitted with run flat tyres so I`m not used to stopping when punctured anyway) CHRIS ------------- you can`t have any fun in a straight line Honda CB77 project |
Posted By: red leader one
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 14:59
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I presume your car came with run flats. |
Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 16:13
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But then run flat tyres can't be repaired. Sidewall damage is rather academic on bike tyres, as running flat is rarely done, if not actually impossible. ------------- Brian. Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next. |
Posted By: iansoady
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 16:51
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Apart from trials bikes. I used to run the back of my Bullet trials replica at 3-4 psi. I confess that handling on the road between sections was interesting. ------------- Ian 1964 Norton Electra 1965 BSA/Suzuki 1992 Yamaha SRV250 |
Posted By: c13pep
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 18:30
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[QUOTE=red leader one] I presume your car came with run flats. Yes the tyres are factory fitted along with the puncture warning system With regard to trials tyres they are made with soft walls to allow for low running pressures but as you say, Ian, there not that great for road use. Just for interest does anyone know if a full `Knobbly` would pass the MOT CHRIS ------------- you can`t have any fun in a straight line Honda CB77 project |
Posted By: Adam
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 19:03
| Any knobbly tyred bike I've had for Mots need DOT, MST or E markings on the tyre wall. The E has a circle round it. NHS (not for highway service) or OFF ROAD ONLY would've failed. |
Posted By: c13pep
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 21:30
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[QUOTE=Brian UK] But then run flat tyres can't be repaired. Run flat tyres can be repaired, I think all the manufacturers have now made this public as have BMW/MINI and other car makers. CHRIS ------------- you can`t have any fun in a straight line Honda CB77 project |
Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 22:37
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Not everyone agrees with that. https://www.national.co.uk/information/run-flat-tyres" rel="nofollow - https://www.national.co.uk/information/run-flat-tyres ------------- Brian. Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next. |
Posted By: Adam
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2018 at 10:04
| Can we get done off the law for low tyre pressure on run flat tyres the same as we can for low pressure in a conventional pneumatic? |
Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2018 at 10:34
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Depends on whether you can see that the tyre is flat. With tyres designed to run flat for a short time, I doubt it. If a tyre is designed to be safe in that condition, then there would be no offence. A normal tyre is not safe when very underinflated. ------------- Brian. Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next. |
Posted By: BobV7
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2018 at 10:50
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The only comment I have to make regarding tyre safety is, in a car you are more likely to see an amber flashing light on the scene than a blue one. ------------- V7 Classic Black and gold was the best. But green & black was nice too. Now blue is in! |
Posted By: jpc
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2018 at 11:09
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I don't have the self-confidence or materials knowledge to attempt sealing a spoked wheel like Iansoady did. I'm still looking for a solution, as a tubed tyre puncture is a major bummer compared to plugging a tubeless. I've looked at different things and this one looks promising, but I'm still not sure it's a good idea on '70s/'80s Borrani alloy rims (?) http://tubliss.com/tubliss/" rel="nofollow - http://tubliss.com/tubliss/
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Posted By: Ken-Guzzibear
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2018 at 11:43
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My V1000 has run tubeless tyres with tubes in them for the 26+ yrs and over 200k miles I have owned it ....there was an article where a guy sealed the spoked wheels were made to seal so the owner could run without tubes but the hassle, to me, is just not worth it. When touring I have a spare tube same one fits front or back on the V1000. The few times I needed it got trailered to tyre place easy enough ....Had a VFR750 with tubeless tyres and a puncture still needed to be trailered to a tyre place .... ------------- The Older i Get, The Better I Was |
Posted By: jpc
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2018 at 12:24
 With a tubeless tyre repair kit, you're off again in 20 minutes, tops ! |
Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2018 at 13:22
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Got the RAC out first time with the Spada III, they plugged it in 10 minutes. Next time I did it myself because I was very close to home and the tyre wasn't flat so could be ridden home. Had a flat on the Norge too, plugged that myself by the roadside. Problem was pumping the tyre up again. Those CO2 cylinders just didn't seal so hardly put any pressure in at all. Now carry a small 12v pump.
------------- Brian. Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next. |
Posted By: rapheal
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2018 at 14:45
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My Nephew had a puncture in his rear tyre last September, when we toured Belgium it was his fault anyway for going down all those grotty farm tracks, ( cheap satnav on his phone) he tried a tin of that tyre weld and it was not much good so we ended up pushing the bike the nail had gone in and out through the sidewall !! I did suggest before we left a tube of that tube sealer stuff, as the farmers use it on their ATVs round here to stop punctures from thorns and flints glad I stuck to tubeless tyres !!
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Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2018 at 15:03
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Even in a tubeless tyre you would have no hope if the nail went into the tread then out through the sidewall. ------------- Brian. Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next. |
Posted By: Mike H
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2018 at 14:04
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Last year an acquaintance found he got the tip of one of those snap off blade knives in his rear tyre. We were checking outv of a hotel and he had about 160 miles to get back home, somewhere near Reading I think. We were in Doncaster. Got RAC van out, but RAC guy said yes can plug it, but will be limited to 40 mph, and anyway won't make 160 miles.  So left him waiting for the recovery trailer.  - ------------- "Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday." |
Posted By: jpc
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2018 at 14:45
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Don't know just how big a hole you can plug. My experience with a VTR 1000 I used to own: audible rear puncture while in a city tunnel, immediate total deflation, no layby, just managed to exit at 10 MPH with traffic swerving by. The tear was big enough to easily push my contact key through. No FO to be found. I walked a mile to a bike garage I knew of, the guy said buy a plug kit, I'd never heard of them. I walked back and stuffed in 2 plugs side by side, inflated with a canister, gingerly took off. I then asked a very-high-mileage rider about changing the tyre, he said "No, I've done thousands of miles with plugged tyres". He was right, never had a problem. You never change a car tyre because it's plugged. Now riding exclusively the T3, I'm seriously thinking about the TUBELISS solution I mentionned. |
Posted By: Exmoorbeast
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2018 at 18:35
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I think people are getting confused with emergency plugs that are fitted externally and a proper mushroom plug made by Schrader that is fitted from inside. If you can fit a plug from the outside then it is a get you home measure like the aerosol can puncture remedy, the internal mushroom is a permanent repair although some people will not repair a front tyre full stop. I have seen small holes stopped with a pk screw as a get you home! i know of a British championship winning sprint bike sold to my friend had 4 patches on the front inner tube. Be safe people. |
Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2018 at 20:16
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Well I use those sticky shoelace plugs. They form a knot inside the tyre, so never move. I have repaired numerous tyres with these and never had a problem since. I was introduced to them when I got a puncture in NE France in the car. Fitted spare then people we were staying with took me to local Citroen garage who repaired the tyre with one of these things. Told me it was good for the remaining life of the tyre. Wouldn't take any money either. ------------- Brian. Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next. |
Posted By: jpc
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2018 at 06:56
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My comments were also about the "sticky wick" variety. After reading Exmoorbeast's post I combed the net for comments on motorcycle use. They're all over the place from "never exceed 40 MPH and change tyre ASAP" to "Good for the rest of the tyre's life". My experiences make me lean towards the latter for a rear tyre, not so sure about a front... If you're a live motorcyclist of over 50 yrs of age, you're a risk evaluation expert, and not a bad one.
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Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2018 at 08:40
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From personal experience, I would never patch a tube in a front tyre. ------------- Brian. Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next. |
Posted By: johnno
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2018 at 09:07
------------- 1100 sport corsa , Honda cb10000r , rider |
Posted By: Exmoorbeast
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2018 at 09:25
| We used to use Barum real rubber inner tubes that could be Vulcanised ( patch welded with pressure and heat) but now tubes are mostly synthetic so don't take a cold patch too well .I can't remember the last time I saw a vulcanising machine but I do remember the smell! The Tireless product is interesting but is meant for off road bikes that are ridden for a max of a few hours between checking the pressure or changing the tyre & at almost no pressure so not suitable for a road bike, good idea though,like the Bib mousse .I am always amazed that we don't get more punctures really. |
Posted By: jpc
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2018 at 09:38
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I've contacted the Dutch distributor for TUBELISS, it's not officially approved or certified for road use but "some people use it". I've also seen ladders in US hardware stores labeled "Not for climbing on" or words to that effect. Or in the '70s, glossy picture ads for bikes in US magazines, with NEVER a person riding them or even sitting on them. "You pays your money and you takes your chances."
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Posted By: Ken-Guzzibear
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2018 at 10:39
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Well I guess you may only find out if said patch doesn't work once ! To be honest a tube is not that bulky and does not take long to replace ------------- The Older i Get, The Better I Was |
Posted By: jpc
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2018 at 10:52
Assuming you're carrying the tube, tyre spoons, a pump, some sort of lubricant and find a support for the bike in the case of the front tyre, timewise you're kidding, right ?  |
Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2018 at 10:57
Until the day it causes an accident, causing lots of damage to a third party, then the insurance company have a get out clause, and you end up with a big bill. Is it worth the risk? ------------- Brian. Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next. |
Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2018 at 11:01
In the days when I used tubes yes I did have enough with me to change a tube. Had to do it on the occasion that I found patching a tube is not a good idea. ------------- Brian. Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next. |
Posted By: jpc
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2018 at 11:01
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You take your chances... or not. I agree it's worth thinking about. Just like riding a bike... If motorcycles were invented today, they'd NEVER be allowed on a public road
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Posted By: Exmoorbeast
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2018 at 12:06
| I carry a tube and levers and a can of squirt, obviously pointless if you can't use tyre levers . Work on the principle if I take it with me I've got it covered. |
Posted By: jpc
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2018 at 13:01
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Motorcycles used to have a front mudguard bracket that swung down and doubled as a stay, made the prospect of roadside front wheel removal a bit more realistic, last seen in the '60s I think. On a twin disc Guzzi you'd start by removing both calipers and their brake line stays, then explore the surrounding landscape for a suitable support before even removing the wheel. Kind of hopeless.
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